The Handmaid's Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers from Hulu subscribers) Thread 2

[OverByYer]

Under his eye

I may be completely misremembering this but I thought there was discussion way back during season 1 about Gilead being racist by design? That it was a deliberate choice by Atwood? And that black women who could have been handmaids were sent to jezebels instead?

I should clarify- a deliberate choice by Atwood because it’s what she had witnessed in what she was basing Gilead on.

I think unpleasant man viewed his "request" as more of a trade, as if being hand maids made them into prostitutes.
If he realised that June was important I would worry he would try to trade her

Moira did something didn't she that got her sent to Jezebels - I'll need to try to remember!

@MotionActivatedDog

I should clarify- a deliberate choice by Atwood because it’s what she had witnessed in what she was basing Gilead on.

I've never read the book but this is a point where the programme hasn't followed the book maybe? I think the intention wasn't to make a point about colour and race and it's really more about the power of the men and the lack of power for the women. There are some glimpses of men in Gilead who are not all bad and some of the women who also choose to have the power (wives/aunts) over the women rather than support them. Apart from the one comment I mentioned above, I can't think that colour or race has been relevant to the story. I say again, i obviously could be missing something completely.

@Iggi999

Moira did something didn't she that got her sent to Jezebels - I'll need to try to remember!

She dressed up as an Aunt (or maybe a Martha) and tried to escape with June. June was stopped at the station and Moira got on a train. June assumed she was either free or dead until she found her at Jezebels.

I think anyway.

..she escaped from the red centre, but was recaptured. Moria wasn't black in the novel, I'm sure the Gileadeans were more racist in the novel than in the series!

I've never read the book but this is a point where the programme hasn't followed the book maybe?

Yes I think that’s it.

Moira’s not black in the book, of course.

@Iggi999

..she escaped from the red centre, but was recaptured. Moria wasn't black in the novel, I'm sure the Gileadeans were more racist in the novel than in the series!

That makes sense. You would sort of expect them to also be racist but i think it would add a dimension that would detract a bit from the rest of the story and become a key feature that it doesn't need. Just cast it fairly to reflect the time/locale with people who play the characters well and it quickly becomes irrelevant. Which it has done well really, as without actually thinking about it, we don't really focus on the race or colour of the characters.

There was a discussion on the original thread (way back when!) that said that Atwood deliberately didn't reference colour at all as she didn't want to detract from the experience of women so had deliberately left race out of it.

I read the book but can't remember colour being mentioned to know if the above is true or not.

Leaving the issue of colour out is, frankly, a bit of a cop out though, isn't it? Especially given the proportion of black Americans (as well as other minorities). Smacks a bit of white privilege - although as a white writer, perhaps that's understandable.

@JacquelineCarlyle

There was a discussion on the original thread (way back when!) that said that Atwood deliberately didn't reference colour at all as she didn't want to detract from the experience of women so had deliberately left race out of it.

I read the book but can't remember colour being mentioned to know if the above is true or not.

Ahh then I have misremembered.

I read the book recently and don't remember their being any references to colour.

@BIWI

Leaving the issue of colour out is, frankly, a bit of a cop out though, isn't it? Especially given the proportion of black Americans (as well as other minorities). Smacks a bit of white privilege - although as a white writer, perhaps that's understandable.

Does every programme have to reference that though? The show imo has the correct demographics and the roles seem generally fair.

I hate it when a show meant to be for entertainment tries too hard (like This is Us) and therefore creates more of an issue.

I'm perfectly happy to choose to watch a programme highlighting black issues or religious oppression or gay rights or whatever, but I don't think every programme needs to focus or feature everything. This one is about men and women and power really but it has characters of many colours and sexuality.

I should probably leave the thread before I'm accused of being a racist, homophobic transphobe though.

Sorry - I wasn't trying to insinuate anything like that! Just that it adds another dimension to the whole issue of power play (as well as the fact that you really can't ignore it)

Black people and religious people from the "wrong" religions were sent away in the book. There weren't any black commanders, for example.
This is a feminist book. It was written as one novel, not several series and could not possibly cover everything. I imagine disabled people were treated very badly too, and it is interesting how making people disabled is one of their main methods of control.

@BIWI

Sorry - I wasn't trying to insinuate anything like that! Just that it adds another dimension to the whole issue of power play (as well as the fact that you really can't ignore it)

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying

And yes interesting about disabled people in that they don't feature unless created by punishments. Would born living unbabies be saved or quietly suffocated? I think we know the answer to that.

Wasn’t there a situation in an earlier season where a baby was born disabled? My memory is horrendous.

In the original book, PoC were 'children of Ham' and given the option to be shipped off to their 'homeland' (they were actually then dumped in the ocean).

Bruce Miller made the deliberate choice not to include this in the TV series for a few reasons. 1) time has moved on since 1985 when the book was written 2) he wanted to tell the story of women and have that the main focus 3) if he remained true to the book on this issue there would be no black characters at all as they'd have been sent away during the initial takeover, leaving the show open to being criticised as racist for not having BAME actors. So he made the decision that fertility trumped everything in Gilead.

Re disabled babies, they are 'shredders' and killed at birth in both the book and the TV series. It was briefly referenced iirc. We also had a flashback scene at some point in which people with Down's syndrome were rounded up and taken away somewhere, presumably to be killed.

A 'shredder' was born in an earlier series and they certainly gave the impression that they were leaving the baby to die. It was horrific. The only people with disabilities who survived were the ones whose disabilities were created by Gilead itself.

And @ElephantOfRisk I agree with everything you said re the race issue. I do think it's representative of the demographic and there has been characters of colour in every 'rank' of Gilead. I also agree that the programme doesn't need to be about race. If you want to make a series about racism then do so, be we can also have a series about the oppression and violence women face. It's funny how a TV show about racism is never questioned for not featuring sexism/homophobia etc isn't it or something featuring homophobia is never criticised for not featuring disablism.

It sounds like you remembered the original discussion better than I did @WitchSharkadder - thanks for sharing as that definitely rings a bell.

Thanks @WitchSharkadder that really helps clarify