Murder at the Cottage

[MrsPelligrinoPetrichor]

Documentary on Sky Crime, I think it is 5 episodes.

Omg it was so good ( if a programme about a murder can ever be 'good')

I can't remember anything about this in the news at the time so I was watching it with fresh eyes.

I started watching it, DH came in to get a coffee, sat down and he was hooked too which is rare.

Anyone else seen it?

@PoseyFlump Sure didn't Jim Sheridan himself direct The Field? He knows a thing or two about bad blood between neighbours.

There was blood on the door of her house - you'd have to pass the house if you were going back up to the neighbour's. Surely the assailant is likely to have fled away from the house, not back up to it. It makes no sense to me that they would go back up to the house.

@SwimmingOnEggshells I don't know that film but I've just read the synopsis and it sounds heavy!! Very apt!

Wonder if there's any amateur sleuth websites out there with all the details. I'd like to know who lived in those houses beyond the gate.

I've been sleuthing around and Alfie Lyons and Shirley Foster lived behind her and were permanent residents. The Richardsons lived in the other one and it was a holiday home.

Assailant might have gone back to the house to switch off the lights? Which apparently weren't left on when the police entered, which is interesting if Sophie did get up, put on boots and a dressing gown and go out in the middle of the night -- it would seem quite odd to do all that in the dark, even if it was a full moon, or to switch off the house lights before going out down the boreen.

Alfie Lyons (now dead) and his partner Shirley Foster lived in one of the two houses close to Sophie's the one diagonally behind and above it in the photo but I think the other neighbouring house was a holiday home when she was killed, so it may well be that no one was there at the time. It's not uncommon for some of those houses to be completely unoccupied apart from for a few weeks a year in the summer. Some people only come when they get their boat out for the season. Schull has a lot of yachting types.

One (completely un-evidence-based) theory that had occurred to me is that she woke up and voluntarily left the house in boots and dressing gown to admire the night sky, having turned off the house lights so as not to light-pollute what she could see, and encountered someone then, startled him and ran away, with him chasing, panicked, but that's just based on my own behaviour when I'm somewhere away from streetlights on a clear night, and I always turn off the houselights to do so.

I don't know whether Alfie Lyons or his partner had children, together or separately, but judging by their ages, their children, if any, may well have been well into adulthood and long left home.

It is puzzling that AL and his partner didn't hear anything, given how close the houses are, and how sound carries on a still winter night. But then I sleep with a bedroom window open all year round, and am a light sleeper.

X-post with you, @SwimmingOnEggshells. I assume the Richardson's house was empty at the time of the murder.

Interesting @SwimmingOnEggshells and @MareMare so if someone was annoyed about the gate that probably would only be a proper resident! Did someone say something about a neighbours son and drugs? I'm still stuck with the son angry on behalf of his parents theory!

Another article, found the below passage interesting:

https://villagemagazine.ie/did-gardai-target-bailey-to-shield-sophies-killer-by-gemma-odoherty/

One of the more deplorable tactics deployed to implicate him in the murder was the gardaí’s use of local drug-dealers to make false statements against him.

In 2010, Leo Bolger came before Judge Patrick J Moran in Cork Circuit Court charged with running a massive drug production plant near du Plantier’s home. During the hearing, a garda described his cannabis operation as the “most sophisticated” ever witnessed in West Cork. Bolger (45) had built a large bunker in an overgrown part of his land where he cultivated cannabis plants using advanced hydroponics, heating, watering and lighting systems that revolved around the plants to enhance cultivation. At the time, the street value of the plants was at least €150,000.

Bolger pleaded guilty to the offence, which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years and up to life imprisonment. However, the prosecuting garda informed the judge that the defendant had been assisting them with another case. To the consternation of the court and the defence team,
Bolger was given a suspended sentence as the sympathetic judge stated he was “perhaps trying to survive in the magnificent peninsula of Dunmanus Bay”.

Bolger had in fact been ‘assisting’ gardaí in their case against Bailey. Bolger, who had done odd jobs for du Plantier from time to time, claimed he was present at the property one day in 1993 when he saw her nearest neighbour Alfie Lyons introducing her to Bailey. Remarkably, Bolger only revealed this some 14 years after the murder.

Alfie Lyons, also alleged to be a cannabis user, made a similar claim to gardaí about Bailey in the weeks after the murder. Bailey accepts he was present in Lyons’ garden about 18 months before the murder and that du Plantier was pointed out to him in the distance by Lyons, but he has consistently denied ever meeting or being introduced to her.

Now if both Alfie Lyons and Leo Bolger were lying about Bailey being introduced to Sophie (and they both knew her) the question is, why?

Bear in mind, though, that Gemma Doherty has both a very right-wing agenda and an entrenched anti-Garda stance, so this is coming from a particular ideological position. Having said that, I've read the article, and was interested in it for starting a few different possibilities, like possibly moving the time of the murder to morning because of the likelihood of Sophie having eaten breakfast based on her stomach contents (which would also explain the lack of lights left on in the house) and the link to the speeding car.

And I do think the drug context in west Cork has been underexplored. And that as well as people growing weed to supply, there is a long history of gardaí, navy and coastguard combating Class A drugs being imported into Ireland from Central and South American by boats coming into remote small coves that are difficult to monitor. This is from 1993

www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1993-06-09/28/

and this is from this year, mostly about a big cocaine haul on a container ship in Cork harbour, but it references a 440 million euro cocaine haul siezed off Mizen Head in 2007

www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/over-12-million-worth-drugs-19868491

@PoseyFlump

Now if both Alfie Lyons and Leo Bolger were lying about Bailey being introduced to Sophie (and they both knew her) the question is, why?

Well, I think Gemma O'Doherty's argument is that as people of interest to the police on drug charges, they could be bribed with the possibility of being let off charges, or, alternatively, browbeaten and threatened by being punitively pursued by the police, into saying whatever the police wanted to strengthen their case against IB. Rather like Marie Farrell once they had the threat of revealing her possible affair to hold over her.

That article would've been before she went full on into the anti-Garda, extreme Catholic, anti-immigrant etc mindset, looking at the year on it (though she'd probably have been on her way). I actually think Village magazine dropped her at some stage due to the change in her views. But yes, good to bear in mind the...peculiarities... of the article writer.

So can we assume Leo Bolger was supplying Alfie Lyons with drugs?

Can we also assume that some local Garda might have had their fingers in Bolger's honey pot?

Bolger had done work for Sophie. Did Sophie find something out?

It's all very close to her home and more plausible than cops covering for a sexually deviant senior cop. But if they were all covering their own backs to avoid the drug thing coming out ....

Anyone know if Bolger had an alibi?

@MareMare interesting about the drug smuggling in little coves.

Bolger in one article was described as a 'craftsman' and did jobs for Sophie. Did he raise her bed and knew she had a good view of the coastline? Or knew of it? More questions than answers!

Very interesting, I read Alfie was a stoner alright and both him and Bolger providing statements re Bailey is questionable in my view.

I also think it was the morning when it happened, the autopsy reported she had breakfast foods in her stomach, no lights on, an unmade bed and also the photo of the loaf of bread out with a slice recently cut all suggest she was just out of bed.

The section in the DPP report on Mark Graham gives good insight into the methods of the gards at the time. He was a known drug addict and they basically told him to make certain statements in return for cash, cigarettes and hash. It was all recorded on tape.

Yeah and where did they get the hash from to bribe him with?!

@PoseyFlump

Yeah and where did they get the hash from to bribe him with?!

I think Martin Graham said on the West Cork podcast that one of the times he was given weed, it was in an evidence bag.

Having said that he seemed a bit of a nutter in the IB mode, a sort of contrarian ‘freeman of the land’ type. Thinks he’s too clever to have a ‘rat race’ job etc.

The podcast suggested that he was the one who said to police, when he was interviewed after IB stayed at a house he was also staying at (not sure if it was his) that what they needed was to get Ian relaxed and talking ‘with a big spliff’, so the idea wasn’t that they were bribing him with drugs, they were supposedly giving him weed to befriend and entrap IB with…?

The total amount of weed and money mentioned in the podcast was actually pretty small.

I still can't figure out though why Alfie Lyons wasn't a major suspect? Living so close and having strained relations with Sophie?

I read on a different thread that Alfie Lyons wouldn't have had the strength to lift the concrete block, etc. I don't know if that's true? But yes, I think he was very much a person of interest. It seems implausible that they heard nothing at all?! In such a quiet setting?!

I can't understand why they haven't tested whatever evidence is left (and that hasn't mysteriously gone missing) with the most up to date dna testing? What about the concrete block? Do the Guards still have it?

Ian Bailey had scratches on his hands and arms afterwards - if he got these at the murder then presumably he left his blood there too? And yet no trace at all was found of his dna at the scene.

The Italian woman who stayed in the Thomas household at the time.. What she said in the Netflix doc is quite different to her statement at the time which was that she saw something black soaking in a bucket. That could have been anything!

The woman who saw a fire behind the studio on the 26th December... Would Ian have waited three days to burn the clothes?? Two Guards contradicting each other on the Sheridan doc.. One saying he burnt the coat and then a statement saying they had taken the coat..

I thought the Guard Dwyer came across terribly in the programmes.. So cocksure... He seems to think guilty until proven innocent in relation to Bailey.

I don't like how the programmes glossed over the shameful loss of crucial evidence in this case. Where is the accountability?!! Where does incompetence end and criminality begin?? Someone removed that blood soaked gate from the Garda Station and presumably disposed of it... And that is where the focus of the review should be - not on hazy recollections of things Bailey may or may not have said.

Far too much credence or time was given to people's recollections, feelings and interpretations of interactions with Bailey.

The speeding blue Ford car that was seen in the area that morning - that seems like a huge lead and yet I only vaguely remember hearing about it at the time. All I remember hearing about was Bailey. And Marie Farrell.. has her husband ever spoken out to confirm she was actually out of the house?!! I'm inclined to think her 'evidence' isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Imagine that Bailey is innocent.. Having programmes made where your neighbours speak out about how unpleasant you are, people idly wondering whether Jules knew more than she let's on.. The hate mail they received! It is so sad that her daughters have had this hanging over them all these years... The not knowing, always wondering..

I'm fascinated by this case and would love to see a proper independent review of it undertaken.

@Sailorsgirl44 I agree with all your points. I think Dwyer came across dreadfully in the documentary. To him, IB is guilty despite only circumstantial evidence which is based on his character, violent behaviour to Jules Thomas, scratches on his person and Marie Farrell's discredited evidence due to her own admission that she lied when identifying IB.

There should be a new investigation using up to date technology and DNA testing and with an open mind as to who the murderer might be. If it's not IB, it means the murderer got away with it because the Guards were so focused on IB they didn't look at anyone else.

Personally, I think MF should be looked into more. Why did she insert herself into the investigation? She was in the area with an unidentified man at the time the Guards think the murder was carried out. I'm not suggesting they were involved but was that possibility ever looked into?

The neighbours and the gate dispute should be reexamined.

How the blood got on the door was never properly answered (although it's probably 25 years too late to answer that question). Why would the murderer go back to the house?

I wasn't living in Ireland at the time of the murder, although I am now, and can't believe the Guards incompetence in this investigation. They were too blinkered trying to get the evidence they had to fit IB rather than using the evidence to find the murderer, who might be IB but also might be someone else. If IB is innocent his life has been destroyed by the Guards and MF. The facts seem to be that IB had no motive for the murder or for going to meet Sophie that night. There is no proof of a connection between them at all, aside from a tenuous link from a belated memory of one of her friends of a poet contacting Sophie prior to her death. IB wasn't named by the friend. I don't understand why the Guards got so fixated with him to the point they used witnesses to manufacture evidence and to get a confession out of him. It's a stretch to say that because someone is a dv perpetrator they are a murderer. Yes, they are violent but there are many dv abusers who don't turn to murder (or who, if they do, murder their dv victim).

While IB may be guilty, equally he may be innocent. At the least the 2 documentaries have shone a light on the ineptitude of the investigation, which hopefully might lead to it being reopened with fresh eyes and an open mind.

AL’s strength. It’s hard to say what someone is capable of when they’re angry. People who live in remote cottages usually have to do some jobs that require strength such as chopping firewood etc. And how strong was his wife? I’m small but I’m fairly sure I’d be strong enough.

The cleaner said a small red hatchet was missing from the cottage. Did Sophie take it with her for protection and someone took it off her and hit her with the blunt end? Then how much strength would they need to use the concrete block afterwards? And it doesn’t rule out a visitor to AL’s house.

The DPP document linked below discounts the scratches because the Garda recorded IB had scratches up his arms which means he wasn’t wearing a big black coat and no one at the time thought much of the light scratches, only after the fact. A farmer saw him with the Christmas tree.

The document also says that Jules soaked IB’s shorts in a bucket after he killed the turkeys. Heavy cargo type shorts could look like a coat.

Jules said she started the fire before the murder and burned her old painting clothes and a horsehair mattress which smouldered and burnt for three days. Very plausible.

No-one can fart in that place without a witness seeing them but no-one saw anyone leaving the scene. Maybe that’s because they didn’t. They just went back up the hill.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

Some great points made here.. Bailey gave a blood sample - did anyone else?

I understand Alfie Lyons died recently but Shirley is still alive.. She should be interviewed again.

Also, Sophie and her housekeeper thought someone might be using her house when it was empty.. She changed the locks because of it. Did Alfie and Shirley know anything about this? Did they think Sophie was right about this? Surely they would be aware of someone going in and out of that house?

There was some disagreement between them over the gates being opened, she was concerned about possible drugs in the area and suspected her house might have been used in her absence.. I can imagine a scenario where she and Alfie have a heated exchange. I hope that the Guards fleshed all this out at the time!

I hope that the Guards fleshed all this out at the time!

Somehow I doubt it. A French victim killed by someone 'not from round here' seems to be the thinking from the off.

Some interesting points from the DPP document

IB willingly gave blood samples and fingerprints. As a crime reporter he would have been aware of forensics. No forensic evidence linking IB to the scene was found.

Jules was arrested for murder. None of the questions put to her related to her involvement in murder. Her arrest and detention was unlawful.

The Gardai asked the DPP if they could arrest Jules for aiding and abetting. They said only if there was proof that a person had committed a crime (that someone could aid and abet with)

The DPP told the Gardia in March 2000 there was not enough evidence to prosecute IB, yet they arrested Jules for aiding and abetting in September 2000. It’s clear in the document that the DPP were not impressed by this considering the advice they had previously given on the matter.

The Gardai warned members of the public that IB was dangerous and could kill again. In February 1997 Bill Fuller took his family to the bridge to investigate himself. They thought they saw IB and ran screaming in a blind panic, flagging down a passing car. They had only seen a local farmer. The same day Bill Fuller made a statement to the Gardia and the DPP said it carried no incriminating weight.

They seem to be suggesting the Gardia were whipping up hysteria then obtaining statements off the back of it. They also considered it an unsafe practice to only have one officer assigned to a witness.

The DPP document is critical of Garda witness relationships. It says it is abundantly clear Malachi Reed was not upset by IB (his mother’s statement said he was fine when he got home) until after speaking with Kelleher, he then became upset and turned it into something sinister that alarmed him.

The report states ‘Baileys long black coat does not seem to have disappeared. On 31 December 1996 Kelleher noticed Bailey wearing a long black coat and carrying a bottle of wine.’

Essentially the report used all the Garda notes to show how there were discrepancies between their own Garda evidence (which they should have worked out themselves)

The DPP document looks at the timing of phone calls in great depth and shows that some of the witnesses recollection about call timings and who knew what when doesn’t correspond with other witness evidence and the call logs. It shows IB would have known what he said he knew about the crime at the time he said he did through those phone calls.

Such a sad case. Why now have the sky and Netflix series been released? It's not an anniversary or anything is it?

If IB is innocent I just feel so awful that he's had to deal with all of this for 20+ years.

Such a complex case and many possible suspects. Husband 1 and 2. Partner. Police. IB. Drug Neighbour. Alfie Neighbour.

If she thought someone was using her house I wonder why she went back alone in winter?

I get wanting to be alone but that seems a bit extreme?

This is all fascinating.