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Murder at the Cottage

375 replies

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/06/2021 23:01

Documentary on Sky Crime, I think it is 5 episodes.

Omg it was so good ( if a programme about a murder can ever be 'good')

I can't remember anything about this in the news at the time so I was watching it with fresh eyes.

I started watching it, DH came in to get a coffee, sat down and he was hooked too which is rare.

Anyone else seen it?

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Spandrel · 23/06/2021 11:19

I’ve only watched three episodes — are any alternative suspects explored in later episodes?

Sophie’s family don’t appear to have considered, to the best of my knowledge, any suspects other than Ian Bailey, and don’t ever appear to have publicly cast a whisper of suspicion on her husband. I remember the producers of the West Cork podcast remarking on the fact that Daniel du TP didn’t travel to Cork with her family immediately after they were told of her murder, but saying that Sophie’s family didn’t find this odd. Someone in this documentary said he’d been distressed and wasn’t capable of travelling. He did move on quickly, though — but my impression was that it was pretty much an open marriage, anyway.

CaroleFuckingBaskin · 23/06/2021 21:22

I have just finished watching. Excellent.

One question that keeps niggling. The elderly parents were waiting on news when they heard a woman's body had been found. Am I right that they phoned her husband with their concerns and he said not to worry because he had spoken to her only an hour ago?? This was well after the body had been found.

I'm wondering if it was the husband who sent someone to kill her...

SionnachRua · 23/06/2021 21:25

The Netflix one has a lot of involvement with her family I think, so it will be interesting to see what angle it takes. Particularly if there's any mention of that show trial France put on - whether he's guilty or not, that was an absolute sham.

CaroleFuckingBaskin · 23/06/2021 22:42

Will be looking out for the netflix one

Sailorsgirl44 · 25/06/2021 09:10

There's so many things about this case that don't make sense... Apparently the post mortem showed typical breakfast foods (fruit and nuts for her) in her - and a blue speeding car was seen in the area at around 7. 30am. Its entirely possible that the murder didn't happen until the morning, at which time Ian Bailey was at home (and didn't have a blue car) . Her body was found at 10am.
There were no lights on in her house... Wouldn't some lights be left on if she had been disturbed at night? And the murderer must have been splattered with blood and would surely have left traces if he had gone into the house to turn them off?
Ian Bailey was drinking that night with Jules.. Would he really have been able to drive 20 minutes, murder her savagely, leave no trace and drive 20 minutes home.. And have no bloodstained clothes seen in the Thomas household?
Marie Farrel is a fantasist who really muddied the waters... The sighting on Kealfadda is really out of the way of the direct route between Sophie and Ians houses.
I think the Guards had a very blinkered approach to this case... Ian was a 'local weirdo' - case closed.

TrickOrRuddyTreat · 25/06/2021 10:42

I think the Guards had a very blinkered approach to this case... Ian was a 'local weirdo' - case closed

I agree Sailorsgirl44

Ian Bailey is defintiely weird and certainly has it in him to be violent enough to do what was done to Sophie - as the DV incident proves - but that doesn't actually mean he did kill Sophie and the police seem to have gone 'oh he could have done it and he's odd' and started working out how to manipulate/manufacture evidence to support that.

I can't get away from the fact it must have been someone she knew reasonably well - there was no sign of a break in so either the door was unlocked or she opened it. If it was the former why is there no sign of a struggle in the house? If it's because she panicked and ran out before she could be attacked then why wasn't she bare foot? And if she opened the door to someone then why didn't she put something over her nightie before opening the door? Unless it was someone she was very comfortable with she'd have covered herself. Was she going down to the gate to let someone in or following them down to lock it after them? Again, surely that had to be someone she knew? Ian Bailey doesn't fit with any of that. Nothing suggests he knew her well and other than the neighbour who thinks he might have introduced them once (but can't be sure) no-one seems to have seen them together or heard them talk about each other. So why would she open the door to him?

Given the information about stomach contents and the early morning car sighting my theory is she had an overnight visitor who she went down to let out, they had a row and he killed her. And whoever 'he' was it clearly wasn't Ian Bailey.

Spandrel · 25/06/2021 10:54

@Sailorsgirl44

There's so many things about this case that don't make sense... Apparently the post mortem showed typical breakfast foods (fruit and nuts for her) in her - and a blue speeding car was seen in the area at around 7. 30am. Its entirely possible that the murder didn't happen until the morning, at which time Ian Bailey was at home (and didn't have a blue car) . Her body was found at 10am. There were no lights on in her house... Wouldn't some lights be left on if she had been disturbed at night? And the murderer must have been splattered with blood and would surely have left traces if he had gone into the house to turn them off? Ian Bailey was drinking that night with Jules.. Would he really have been able to drive 20 minutes, murder her savagely, leave no trace and drive 20 minutes home.. And have no bloodstained clothes seen in the Thomas household? Marie Farrel is a fantasist who really muddied the waters... The sighting on Kealfadda is really out of the way of the direct route between Sophie and Ians houses. I think the Guards had a very blinkered approach to this case... Ian was a 'local weirdo' - case closed.
Where is the information about the stomach contents from, @Sailorsgirl44? I hadn’t come across it before.
dayswithaY · 25/06/2021 11:36

I've been eagerly waiting for this as I listened to the West Cork podcast. I found that to be very biased, the podcasters clearly formed a bond with Ian and Jules and they took the approach that he was just a harmless poet living this bohemian lifestyle and why didn't the nasty Garda just leave him alone.

They glossed over the domestic violence and overall treatment of Jules and the whole podcast seemed to be about poor old Ian. Sophie was barely mentioned.

Already I'm encouraged by the film's more sympathetic view of Sophie and her family. The filmmaker doesn't seem so taken in by Ian but I could do with a little less of his ranting in the potting shed.

I had no idea Jules had left him - good for her. Her previous marriage was also abusive.

In a small community like that I can imagine that Sophie's arrival was quite the talking point. Attractive, wealthy French woman moving in - completely alone. Wouldn't surprise if some local drunk fancied his chances one night and tried to break in to get to her and it escalated into murder.

I don't know if Ian is the murderer but it's shameful that no one else has been investigated, DNA lost, no real suspects or motive, no justice for Sophie.

Spandrel · 25/06/2021 15:53

I've been eagerly waiting for this as I listened to the West Cork podcast. I found that to be very biased, the podcasters clearly formed a bond with Ian and Jules and they took the approach that he was just a harmless poet living this bohemian lifestyle and why didn't the nasty Garda just leave him alone.

They glossed over the domestic violence and overall treatment of Jules and the whole podcast seemed to be about poor old Ian. Sophie was barely mentioned.

Already I'm encouraged by the film's more sympathetic view of Sophie and her family.

But Sophie's family were satisfied with the West Cork podcast, according to the producers in the 'extra' at the end and they've certainly never said anything to the contrary while they withdrew their cooperation from Murder at the Cottage and have been vocally critical of its use of photographs of Sophie's body, and the scenes where Jim Sheridan and Nick Foster talk to Ian Bailey from the Paris courtroom, which her uncle told the media 'turned the trial into a kind of farce'.

(I believe that all those archive interview clips with Sophie's parents those are old are replacing up-to-date interviews with her family, but the family withdrew permission for them late in the day, so the producers replaced them with old footage.)

I actually think the podcast stands up well to Murder at the Cottage.

I think the two podcast makers were very aware that their longterm access to IB might make it look as if they were biased, but I think that part of the 'story' as they see it is examining how a man who's been suspected of a murder for 25 years lives his life, and how his partner does.

I didn't think they softpedalled the violence to Jules at all, but in a podcast, all you can do is talk to people and describe things, and Jules really wouldn't play ball and just kept saying Ian shouldn't drink spirits, whereas the strength of a TV documentary is that you can show images, and those images of Jules' battered face and the sheer amount of hair he'd pulled out had a much bigger impact.

I'm also pleased she eventually left him. (Though she is funding the purchase of a caravan so he has somewhere to live, as he is penniless and homeless, and his only income is from selling pizza in the market. He was trying to crowdfund a collection of his own (truly terrible) poetry recently, but I don't know if he reached his target.)

I was actually just listening to the final episode of WC today, and I was struck how they edited it so that the last speech IB makes in the whole 14 episodes is his utterly narcissistic tirade in the taxi on his way to be arrrested. They're very late and his lawyer phones to ask where he is and then phones back to tell him that there's not going to be a public arrest on the steps of the courthouse, but business will be conducted discreetly indoors, and IB (who apparently wanted a showy handcuffing and was carrying a book of his own poetry) loses it and starts shouting about how they need to wait for him, and then starts telling Jennifer Ford, the podcast maker, who, as her husband points out in the voiceover, was 6 months pregnant, that she'll have to get out of the car and out of his way fast so he can make his 'entrance'.

I found that actually quite chilling, especially given how well he knew them both at this point -- this heavily pregnant woman who'd spent years sitting around his kitchen table talking, was just an obstacle to get out of his way. I thought it was a brilliantly ambivalent moment to end on.

In a small community like that I can imagine that Sophie's arrival was quite the talking point. Attractive, wealthy French woman moving in - completely alone. Wouldn't surprise if some local drunk fancied his chances one night and tried to break in to get to her and it escalated into murder.

Not really. One thing that neither the podcast (by two Londoners) and Murder At the Cottage (by a Dubliner) really got right is that Schull is really not just the remote little backwater of 'blow-ins' and' locals' they both represent it as. It has also attracted the seriously moneyed, especially yachting types, and there are lots of multi-million euro second homes, Jeremy Irons and Sinéad Cusack live nearby, so do David Puttnam and Graham Norton, Saoirse Ronan just bought a house not far from there etc etc, and it's quite common to randomly run into famous people in the pubs around in the summer. A foreigner who bought a modest house, came a few times and year and kept herself to herself would barely register for most people.

What I think has been under-explored is the context of the local drug scene lots of people growing weed, and a lot of small deserted cove for import of harder stuff and fairly longstanding rumours that the murderer may have been a locally notorious senior cop, now dead.

SisterMichael · 26/06/2021 00:10

I found that actually quite chilling, especially given how well he knew them both at this point -- this heavily pregnant woman who'd spent years sitting around his kitchen table talking, was just an obstacle to get out of his way. I thought it was a brilliantly ambivalent moment to end on.

Yes I agree, sometimes those moments where they didn’t pass comment and just let IB show himself as he really is were very good.

Having said that, at other times it did feel they were almost taken in by him. I’m not saying he’s guilty but I felt reminded of the Louis Theroux Saville documentary, where LT thinks he’s in control but looking back JS is playing him completely.

DarkDarkNight · 26/06/2021 01:10

Oh good, downloaded this to my planner earlier. I will give it a go.

BlueberryMill · 26/06/2021 11:04

Interesting that a lot of the hate mail they got seemed to be attacking Jules. I don't think there's been any suggestion she did it! Misogyny I guess.
I thought it was odd he'd be able to make money selling pizzas as you'd think people who thought he was a murderer would boycott the stall. Maybe it's tourists who don't know about it buying the pizza though.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 26/06/2021 11:12

No one has mentioned the rooster incident yet Shock

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BlueberryMill · 26/06/2021 12:44

What was that?

Spandrel · 26/06/2021 12:45

@BlueberryMill

Interesting that a lot of the hate mail they got seemed to be attacking Jules. I don't think there's been any suggestion she did it! Misogyny I guess. I thought it was odd he'd be able to make money selling pizzas as you'd think people who thought he was a murderer would boycott the stall. Maybe it's tourists who don't know about it buying the pizza though.
Yes, misogyny towards an older woman etc, but people also blame her for ‘covering up for him’, victim-blame her for not leaving him after the DV etc — and some local people also feel that she sponsored his presence in Schull in the first place by renting to him and then moving him in to her house, and that his presence, whether or not he did it, damaged the place. She’d been living locally long before him, and was well-respected, and I think some people feel he wouldn’t have been accepted so much without her introducing him.

Re. the market stall — obviously some people boycott, but there are a lot of tourists in the season, and in fact some people come to the market specifically to see him and buy food from a suspected murderer. I know of people who specifically went to Schull as ‘dark tourists’, and the three things they wanted to do were see IB, see Kealfadda Bridge, and drive up and photograph Sophie’s house. I’ve heard of someone who bought Jules’ paintings (which also used to be on the market stall) because he thought they’d be worth money when IB was convicted.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 26/06/2021 13:34

What was that? When he was so unbelievably rough with the rooster at the market it looked like he's killed it!

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MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 26/06/2021 13:34

**he'd

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JemimaTab · 26/06/2021 14:45

I don’t get Sky so I’ve not been able to watch this particular series, but have read various long-form articles on the case over the years and am reading a book about it (Murder at Roaringwater). I’ll be watching the Netflix series when that comes on - next week I think.
I do find Ian Bailey to be a terrifying and dangerous individual. The way he revels in and even encourages his notoriety is pretty disturbing IMO.

Spandrel · 26/06/2021 14:48

@JemimaTab

I don’t get Sky so I’ve not been able to watch this particular series, but have read various long-form articles on the case over the years and am reading a book about it (Murder at Roaringwater). I’ll be watching the Netflix series when that comes on - next week I think. I do find Ian Bailey to be a terrifying and dangerous individual. The way he revels in and even encourages his notoriety is pretty disturbing IMO.
I don’t either, but you could do a free trial of NOW tv for a week to see it, which is what I did.
Annonymiss123 · 26/06/2021 19:43

I actually spotted IB in Ballydehob during the week, sitting outside a café.

bubblesforlife · 27/06/2021 11:17

I just finished the series last night. My observations are as follows.
Ian Bailey, is an eccentric, alcoholic unlikeable man. He craves attention and behaves in the most bizarre manor. He was like that before the murder, so he was an easy target.

Jules, well I would say she was quite passive to start out with then stuck with him to see out the case, unfortunately for her that meant 24 years, poor woman. I hope she finds her peace now that they are over.

The Gardai (police) messed up this case from the get go. They were not experienced in this type of case. They seemed to get fixated on Bailey. I genuinely believe they did think it was him to begin and pursued him at all cost. But then when it appeared it wasn’t, to avoid looking silly, continued with the notion, again at all costs. They were corrupt. They are to blame for this case still being open 24 years later.

The ex husband in France. He was the last person she spoke to before bed that night. He was married within 1.5 years later. Odd eh? He hired a hit man, most certainly. As there was a man that walked into a travel agency in Galway the day after the murder, he mentioned he had been in west cork and wanted to fly to Paris on the first available flight. The travel agent reported him as a possible suspect. The guards never pursued it. They lost the opportunity. This was the guy, I believe.

Marie Farrell, ugh well… she got caught up in her own personal life. She was obviously sneaking around behind her husbands back and would have done anything to protect her marriage. She trusted the guards and went along with them. A fool for sure, but in a bad situation. I do believe the guards made her say it was him, alter her statement. I wish they listened when she said she has been forced to lie and pin it on Bailey. It’s her at the end of the day that kind of messed up the case. But at least she eventually came out and told the truth.

Did Bailey do it? No.
Is he a good guy? No, but that doesn’t make him a murderer. He got caught out in a series of bad luck situations.

He really seemed to have lost his mind by the end. But it’s hardly surprising.

The French courts case was a shambles. The family should know better. I guess they crave closure, but surely they know that case was not legit, therefore, pinning a murder based on here say. Like the mother of the 15 year old boy, what an idiot that woman was.

The case will never be solved because of the mess up by the Irish Guards. The answer lies with the ex husband. Too late now.

What a shame for all parties.

MillionBells · 27/06/2021 12:29

They said IB was sentenced (if he ever went/was made to go to France) and yet they said there was no defence team. How can someone be sentenced without a defence team?

JaneJeffer · 27/06/2021 12:34

I've just watched the first two and I'm suspicious of everyone being interviewed!

Would a professional hitman batter someone to death though?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 27/06/2021 12:45

Someone has to be very angry to batter someone to death like that.

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bubblesforlife · 27/06/2021 13:03

It really depends I guess in how angry the person that did/requested it was.

I gather Sophie was not a quiet character, her parents said they had to send her to
Boarding school because of behavioural issues. Lots if guess work.