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Murder at the Cottage

375 replies

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/06/2021 23:01

Documentary on Sky Crime, I think it is 5 episodes.

Omg it was so good ( if a programme about a murder can ever be 'good')

I can't remember anything about this in the news at the time so I was watching it with fresh eyes.

I started watching it, DH came in to get a coffee, sat down and he was hooked too which is rare.

Anyone else seen it?

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PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 05:13

I've watched all of the Netflix now and just about to read the document @Fistful helpfully posted below.

I've come to the conclusion Marie Farrell probably doesn't have any valid contribution. All the way through the Sky documentary I kept saying to my DP 'but did the man she was with see IB too'. If there were 2 witnesses to the man on the bridge it would be significant.

After it was made clear in the Netflix documentary that she refused to name the man I believe there was no man with her and it's all made up. Didn't she get a council house and other strings pulled for her?

SwimmingOnEggshells · 02/07/2021 08:24

I think Marie Farrell is possibly the key to the whole case @PoseyFlump. She's never said who she's been with after all these years. How is that even allowed?? Could the person she was with done it and her phone calls were to lead the gards down the wrong path?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 02/07/2021 08:29

She did tell the judge who she was with, she was ordered to after storming out of the court.

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PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 08:35

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

She did tell the judge who she was with, she was ordered to after storming out of the court.

They later discovered the name she gave to be a lie. Interesting that she also said she saw IB on another occasion but he was staying with friends at the time who confirmed he couldn't have been where she said. That wasn't included as evidence and should have been because it shows she can't recognise him consistently.

After reading all 44 pages of the DPP document it is very clear that a huge amount of cherry picking has been going on by the Gardai and the makers of the Sky and Netflix documentaries.

PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 08:43

I don't believe any of the local's evidence is credible as they seem to either have an agenda against IB or they have been bribed with cash, drugs, clothes, favours, or council houses. What a mess.

The section in the DPP concerning when IB received a phone call from the journalist and at what time he knew what is definitely worth a read. It seems obvious someone at the police station let the info slip very early on and the phone records are on IB's side there.

Prospering · 02/07/2021 08:47

I think MF gave two different names at different times, didn’t she? One was John Reilly, a Longford factory worker who’d died before she named him, but I seem to remember her giving another name much later on, but that he was also dead? I’m not sure whether the second name is in the public domain. I also remember her saying something in an interview about ‘picking a name from a gravestone’, but I don’t remember whether she was saying the gardaí had pressured her to do that, or whether that’s what she’d done with the first name…

There have been various rumours for years saying the man she was driving with the night she saw the man acting strangely by Kealfadda Bridge was a Garda, or, alternatively, Sophie’s killer was a senior Garda known for his sexual predatoriness.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 02/07/2021 08:50

Jesus,she really threw a spanner in the works didn't she? Thanks for the info.

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PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 08:51

Maybe MF never even went out that night. She could just be an attention seeking fantasist. Or the Gardai had something on her. Another witness changed their story in the hope of a lesser sentence for a crime they'd committed. Seems to go on all the time.

RevolvingPivot · 02/07/2021 08:53

I'm up to episode 3 on the podcast. I've had to turn off. The couple doing it make me cringe!!

dayswithaY · 02/07/2021 09:33

I've only just started the Netflix doc but already it's so refreshing because it wants to explore Sophie as a person and for once the focus is on her, not that vile attention seeker IB. I wanted to hear from her family, about her documentaries, the aunt who had a premonition at her wedding. The feeling of being suffocated in her marriage and needing to escape explains her time in Cork, which no one ever did before.

I also was sickened by the podcast, falling for the cult of IB and barely mentioning Sophie.

Newmum110 · 02/07/2021 09:33

I think Ian Bailey is a horrible person. He mistreated Jules & I think he didn't help things by drawing such attention to himself & saying stupid things. I don't think he is responsible for Sophie's death. Feel so sorry for her family & think the guards mishandled the case completely.

Prospering · 02/07/2021 09:41

I'll admit I find MF the fascinating one in all this because she inserted herself voluntarily into the case when she started to make the anonymous phone calls to police about seeing a man near Kealfadda Bridge at night -- the gardaí were only able to exert pressure on her to make a false identification with IB (and link up the sighting with the man she said she'd seen outside her shop when Sophie was inside) because she repeatedly put herself forward in the first place, and then messed up by calling from her landline after calling twice from public phoneboxes, allowing the police to identify her.

I've yet to hear an account or interview that probes her on her psychological processes when she started to phone the guards as 'Fiona' -- did genuinely see a man by the bridge and think her sighting was key to solving a murder, or was she a total fantasist? Did she have some deep-seated guilt about the outing with the other man and have a need to make a kind of 'confession' about it, to the police if not to her husband, and that drove the anonymous calls?

She would have had to tell police there was someone in the car with her, too, because they wouldn't have known -- and in fact her statements say that she left home at 10 pm in her own van, saying she was going out with friends, and drove in convoy to Goleen with the other man in his car after they met in a hotel car park, and then both went in his car to Barleycove beach.

Was her marriage unhappy? She denies having an affair with the man she met that night, though she says they'd had a serious relationship before she married and almost lived together, but they drove out to an isolated beach late at night in December in his car and stayed there for some time. They could have been having sex. But she says they then drove (in his car?) several times between Goleen and Toormore, which suggests some kind of serious conversation, or distress, or not wanting to part? It was on one of those drives she says she saw the man by the bridge, but it's not clear whether she was in her car or his, or why they kept driving back and forth along a not particularly easy winding rural road in the middle of the night in midwinter if there wasn't something quite serious going on...?

I've also wondered about how she talked in interviews about the period when the police, it seems, were being nice to her she talked about having 'my gardaí life' and 'my normal life', had a special mobile given her by them, and at one point said one of them (Fitzgerald?) was like her 'best friend' even leaving aside the various strings pulled on her and her family's behalf.

Was she simply a lonely, unhappy woman longing for a bit of attention and protection, from whoever? She also apparently told a Garda Ombudsman that she reason she left the UK, where she'd been living for years before moving to Schull, because her husband's sister had reported her for benefit fraud, and she was being asked to repay £27000.

(I assume she and her husband rented the shop and icecream parlour, and having a stall at the Coal Quay market in Cork doesn't suggest wealth, but the house they owned in Schull was large and quite glossy -- this is it, I think, from when they put it on the market before they moved away again:

www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-11-ard-cleire-ardmanagh-schull-co-cork/3270460 )

One of the things her special relationship with the gardaí also supposedly covered over was her husband shooting a warning shot at a local oddball who was apparently stealing Marie's underwear out of a shed where they kept their tumbledryer.

Which makes her husband sound quite volatile, and as though he, or both of them, had a complicated or hostile relationship with his family, if it was his sister who reported them for benefit fraud in London...?

Anyway, MF fascinates me. Maybe in part because Ian Bailey is such an obvious eccentric a drunk given to wearing costumes and assuming Irish names, calling entire pubs to attention to subject them to his terrible poems, a natural limelight grabber with no sense of how he was viewed by other people etc but MF seems like a very ordinary, mousy, rather harassed little woman.

placemats · 02/07/2021 09:58

Spoiler alert in this post. For those who haven't watched all of the Netflix doc on the murder of Sophie.

It's quite clear that IB is a violent man - update is Jules has left him. That description from the neighbour about the violent beating of Jules was harrowing. Jules' daughter's friend's testimony was compelling.

I would have liked to known more about Sophie's neighbour, Alfie Lyons.

I love that Sophie's home is her son's home now.

PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 10:14

I would like to know more about Alfie Lyons too. After all, it was him who found the body Hmm

SwimmingOnEggshells · 02/07/2021 10:42

Good post @Prospering. I have also read MF's husband has been charged twice for assault. It's all so fishy.

As for the neighbours, I don't understand why there wasn't more focus on them in the documentaries. Or other suspects for that matter. This article here from the Indo mentions pages of Job Books that were cut out, 9 in total. Most likely these pages covered other suspects:
www.independent.ie/irish-news/lost-five-files-139-statements-and-one-gate-37185350.html

I've also read elsewhere that she didn't get on with her neighbours and they disagreed on whether the gate should be left open or not. Ironically she was found beside the gate with her tied boots on which indicates she intentionally left her house and possibly knew the person.

I believe the murder possibly happened in the morning, possibly around 8am as there were no lights on in the house, her bed was unmade, she had breakfast food contents in her stomach and there was a loaf of bread out that had been sliced recently.

And how did the neighbours not hear any screams? I find that hard to believe.

SisterMichael · 02/07/2021 11:12

I thought one of the documentaries said Alfie Lyons’ partner/wife found the body? But the document says he did, have I got that mixed up?

On a lighter note in the document IB says he remembered Sophie as plain. Come on! She was beautiful.

Prospering · 02/07/2021 11:15

@SisterMichael

I thought one of the documentaries said Alfie Lyons’ partner/wife found the body? But the document says he did, have I got that mixed up?

On a lighter note in the document IB says he remembered Sophie as plain. Come on! She was beautiful.

Yes, I think it was his partner, Shirley Foster, who was driving down the boreen, saw the body, jumped out of the car and ran back to the house to him.
Prospering · 02/07/2021 11:26

As well as the dispute about whether the gate should be left open or shut, there has also been discussion of a situation can't remember who it was, they may have been interviewed in the West Cork podcast? who said it had been suggested they had a motive for murdering Sophie because they wanted to buy the land she owned, which presumably came with the house?

I have no idea whether the gardaí ever took that particularly seriously, but there are still killings over land. A particularly horrible one in north Cork in 2020 involving a will in which the elderly, ill female owner of a small farm had left it to one of her two sons in her will, and her husband and other son shot him dead and then shot themselves, having told her they were letting her live as a punishment. And another, also in north Cork, where one brother killed two others and then himself.

SwimmingOnEggshells · 02/07/2021 11:41

And they won't be the last murders over land in Ireland, or elsewhere.

RevolvingPivot · 02/07/2021 11:59

So she left her second husband for another man who had visited her cottage in Ireland and then turned possessive.

Two suspects right there!!

Prospering · 02/07/2021 12:04

@RevolvingPivot

So she left her second husband for another man who had visited her cottage in Ireland and then turned possessive.

Two suspects right there!!

I don't think there's any evidence she'd left him, though? Apart from phoning him the night before she was killed and him calling her back and having a fairly long conversation which could have been friendly or hostile, I suppose she'd also called the gardener at their country house in France and asked him to plant a tree outside their bedroom window as a present for Daniel Toscan du Plantier.

And I think she'd ended things with Bruno Carbonnet in 1993.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 02/07/2021 14:33

Two suspects right there!!
Both had cast iron alibis.

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PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 14:56

they disagreed on whether the gate should be left open or not.

Could it actually be as simple as she saw a neighbour messing about with the gate, confronted them and it escalated? If it was an ongoing feud and she didn't live there full time you could easily see someone getting passionately angry about a 'blow-in' telling them what to do.

We need to know more about these neighbours and any potential strong, grown sons they might have if they were not capable physically themselves. Presumably any married neighbours gave each other an alibi?

I don't like it when these documentaries don't explain fully why someone obvious was ruled out!

SwimmingOnEggshells · 02/07/2021 15:13

It's very plausible @PoseyFlump, certainly more plausible than Ian Bailey getting up in the middle of the night and brutally murdering a woman he has never met before. IB has no motive and there is zip evidence to place him at the scene, everything is circumstantial.

PoseyFlump · 02/07/2021 15:28

Yes @SwimmingOnEggshells no complicated conspiracy, weirdos howling at the moon, bad poetry. Just escalated anger between neighbours. Seen a few of those situations myself! They can go up like tinder wood in seconds.