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Telly addicts

Murder at the Cottage

375 replies

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/06/2021 23:01

Documentary on Sky Crime, I think it is 5 episodes.

Omg it was so good ( if a programme about a murder can ever be 'good')

I can't remember anything about this in the news at the time so I was watching it with fresh eyes.

I started watching it, DH came in to get a coffee, sat down and he was hooked too which is rare.

Anyone else seen it?

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Odisia · 06/07/2021 21:01

I listened to a bit of the West Cork podcast a couple of years ago and have just watched the Netflix documentary, but haven't seen the Sky one.

Ian Bailey is a horrible, unlikeable person but that doesn't make him guilty of murder. I found the elderly retired policeman with the strong Cork accent arrogant and smug.

I don't know what the answer is and the idea of grief tourists, which may get worse after these documentaries, is abhorrent.

What really stood out for me after the Netflix documentary was the dignity of her son. And the sadness of her elderly parents. It was particularly hard to watch her elderly father and his raw grief. Heartbreaking.

This case should always be about Sophie, and never about Ian Bailey.

CowsEatingAtNight · 07/07/2021 00:47

Hey, that’s a strong Kerry accent, @Odisia. Grin

I agree about Dermot O’Dwyer, though — I found his demeanour in both documentaries and the podcast nothing short of sinister, in a twinkly, avuncular kind of way. His complete refusal to acknowledge any theory other than IB as murderer, or any possibility of Garda psyops or incompetence just struck me as another instalment from a style of staunchly patriarchal, self-assured voice of a segment of trad rural Ireland — the voice that pilloried Joanne Hayes, the voice that wanted a 14 year old girl to bear her rapist’s baby etc. This time the suspect is an unpleasant man with a record of DV, but DOD’s calm insistence he was guilty despite the DPP’s position reminded me of some of the crackpot Kerry Babies theories.

Ouch44 · 07/07/2021 08:23

I've just finished watching the Netflix series after listening to the podcast and the Sky one and now more inclined to feel he's guilty.

How did he get to the crime scene 45 mins after they found the body? And supposedly when he got there he didn't even ask any questions. On the other hand how on earth would he not leave any DNA at the scene or on his clothes (realise he may have burnt them)

Unfortunately the dark tourism has started. As if the community hasn't been through enough. I looked online at where the bridge was and the map showed traffic at the bridge and along the road.

CowsEatingAtNight · 07/07/2021 09:50

Unfortunately the dark tourism has started. As if the community hasn't been through enough. I looked online at where the bridge was and the map showed traffic at the bridge and along the road.

Well, Kealfadda Bridge is on the main road west from Schull, anyway, so it's busy anyway, especially in the tourist season as people are heading west to the further villages, popular beaches and Mizen Head, the view from there is lovely, plus there's an OSKA clothes outlet right beside it that often has a food/coffee truck in the car park and a couple of friendly donkeys, so a lot of people pull in there anyway.

But, yes, people have been going up the boreen to photograph the house and the Celtic cross where her body was found for years, though Alfie Lyons' house next door is on the market (if it hasn't already sold) so there may well be more legitimate traffic. Or of course more rubberneckers masquerading as house viewers.

I think the DPP report complicates the timeline of the phonecalls and information-sharing on the day of the murder, and phone logs, where available, make it clear some people are misremembering timings.

PoseyFlump · 07/07/2021 10:36

This case should always be about Sophie, and never about Ian Bailey.

I feel the same way about Meredith Kercher and not that American girl.

CowsEatingAtNight · 07/07/2021 11:31

@PoseyFlump

This case should always be about Sophie, and never about Ian Bailey.

I feel the same way about Meredith Kercher and not that American girl.

I know what you mean, obviously, but in the case of a murder, the person murdered stays dead and in need of justice and the convicting of a perpetrator regardless of how much attention is paid to the victim's life.

I absolutely respect Sophie's family's desire to 'flesh her out' in the various documentaries so that people know more about her than the circumstances of her brutal death, but to me in purely human terms, it doesn't matter whether she was a beautiful, talented and beloved person or a misanthropic and unpopular jobsworth -- any human being's life being taken is the same level of awful and requires the same level of police and legal scrutiny and effort to solve.

And concentrating on the victim's loveliness at the expense of examining the evidence, leads, suspects etc isn't going to help jog any memories or move things ahead. Unless, I suppose, it is thought it might guilt someone into a confession, or someone who knows something into contacting the police. Maybe it will. I'd love to think so.

But after 25 years, it's perfectly possible that the perpetrator is dead or senile, and anyone with any knowledge of the crime is likewise.

irishfeminist · 07/07/2021 13:43

@CowsEatingAtNight

Hey, that’s a strong Kerry accent, *@Odisia*. Grin

I agree about Dermot O’Dwyer, though — I found his demeanour in both documentaries and the podcast nothing short of sinister, in a twinkly, avuncular kind of way. His complete refusal to acknowledge any theory other than IB as murderer, or any possibility of Garda psyops or incompetence just struck me as another instalment from a style of staunchly patriarchal, self-assured voice of a segment of trad rural Ireland — the voice that pilloried Joanne Hayes, the voice that wanted a 14 year old girl to bear her rapist’s baby etc. This time the suspect is an unpleasant man with a record of DV, but DOD’s calm insistence he was guilty despite the DPP’s position reminded me of some of the crackpot Kerry Babies theories.

Well put. I hated him too. He was also the kind of garda that dismissed Imelda Riney's family's frantic appeals for help when she and her little boy were kidnapped and eventually murdered by known mentally ill misfit Brendan O'Donnell. The gardai dismissed them for a week because they said ah sure she was one of them arty bohemian types, probably took off somewhere, when they could have saved her if they'd paid attention. Her story came back to me a lot watching this. I couldn't believe he could even show his face after the colossal balls the guards made of the investigation.

Having said that, while I know there isn't enough evidence to convict him, I think Bailey did it.

placemats · 08/07/2021 13:00

Ian Bailey, Investigative journalist:

Arrived at the scene and left quickly without asking questions.
Had articles published in Sunday newspapers that questioned the sexual morality of Sophie without a scintilla of evidence.
Proposed his own theory that a hitman had killed Sophie.
Was an abusive alcoholic

Why would anyone believe a word he says?

Glumdalclitch · 08/07/2021 13:31

@placemats

Ian Bailey, Investigative journalist:

Arrived at the scene and left quickly without asking questions.
Had articles published in Sunday newspapers that questioned the sexual morality of Sophie without a scintilla of evidence.
Proposed his own theory that a hitman had killed Sophie.
Was an abusive alcoholic

Why would anyone believe a word he says?

I don’t think assumptions about his innocence are based on believing him, though — there was zero forensic evidence of him on the body, nothing at the scene, despite the frenzied nature of the murder, and he offered hair and blood samples to the police when first arrested, without being legally obliged — that he can’t at that point have known that the police got nothing from forensics would suggest innocence, surely?

And he was (depressingly) very far from alone in speculating about Sophie’s unconventional love life — and in fairness, she had what seems to have been an open marriage, and had taken a lover to the cottage in the past. Which was (and remains) unconventional for most people.

I don’t buy the hitman theory at all, but it’s been proposed by lots of people.

placemats · 08/07/2021 13:39

Hair came from Sophie.

The blood analysis was so weak as to be not valid.

Bailey knew this, which is why he gave samples so readily to the police, whilst under arrest!

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 08/07/2021 13:41

Maybe he got extraordinarily lucky with lack of DNA due to the cock of with leaving the body out for so long?

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placemats · 08/07/2021 13:42

Divorce in Ireland didn't become law until 1996.

But I lived in Ireland during the 80s and the amount of affairs going on between married couples was legend. I lived in Galway city.

irishfeminist · 08/07/2021 13:58

Why would a hitman kill her in such a messy way though, using a block he found on the ground to kill her? It doesnt make sense.

placemats · 08/07/2021 14:11

No it doesn't make sense.

An investigative journalist would know this.

Chulainn · 08/07/2021 14:15

@placemats

Hair came from Sophie.

The blood analysis was so weak as to be not valid.

Bailey knew this, which is why he gave samples so readily to the police, whilst under arrest!

How did IB know about the weak blood analysis? I would have assumed that this kind of information would be kept quiet during an active investigation.

I don't really have an opinion on whether IB killed Sophie or not but there does not seem to be any definitive evidence to suggest he did. Everything - his behaviour, his violence towards his partner, even the way he behaved when he initially went to the cottage - it's all circumstantial and open to interpretation. If the DPP thought the Guards had enough evidence to get a conviction, they would have charged him. That evidence either doesn't exist or wasn't found. IB's problem is he has been judged because the Guards made no secret of the fact that they believed he was the murderer. Because of that, people are using his behaviour as 'proof' that he's guilty, despite the fact that there was no suspicion that he was a threat to people (with the exception of his partner) before Sophie's murder and there is, as I said, no evidence to link him to Sophie's murder.

If he did it, he deserves everything he's got and more. If he didn't do it, I feel sorry for him as his life was destroyed.

placemats · 08/07/2021 15:07

His life wasn't destroyed though.

He made a living off the back of Sophie's death with publications of spurious allegations.

Chulainn · 08/07/2021 15:28

He was a jobbing journalist before the murder and, from what I can see, lost that work once the Guards focused on him. He sells pizzas from a market stall now. He's been vilified for 25 years. I don't blame him for living off the notoriety. He's kind of damned no matter what he does.

Glumdalclitch · 08/07/2021 15:31

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

Maybe he got extraordinarily lucky with lack of DNA due to the cock of with leaving the body out for so long?
But we’re not talking about DNA, really — it was still fairly rudimentary in the 1990s, anyway, though they did retest and exhumed her body to test again much later — and certainly not initially, just more basic stuff like blood group, or whether the hair in Sophie’s grip was her own, or short and dark.

You’d have to be extremely confident that you hadn’t left a trace at the scene, as you chased and then battered someone fighting back (judging by the state of her hands), probably in the dark, over rough terrain, when, presumably, you were out of your mind with rage/fear/booze or whatever, to offer samples.

I know if I’d done it, I’d be likely to have left hair everywhere — I seem to shed like a cat.

IB would be likely not to have known for definite whether forensics had turned up anything, as by that point he was the chief suspect and no one was going to be leaking authoritative crime scene info to him.

Which is not to say I necessarily believe he’s innocent, only that there’s nothing concrete to link him to the murder, other than circumstantial stuff like his record of violence towards his partner, his lack of watertight alibi for the probable time window of the crime (and even then, the time of death was never established with any certainty), a lot of arguably drunken/sarky confessions and some scratches no one photographed at the time. The only witness statement putting him close to Sophie the weekend of her death and near the crime scene were later withdrawn.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 08/07/2021 15:39

I don't think he was confident he hadn't left anything at the scene, maybe that's why he was making a pest of himself at every available opportunity to gain info. Yes,they said on one of the docs that you needed a substantial amount of hair/tissue back than for analysis.

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Glumdalclitch · 08/07/2021 15:43

@Chulainn

He was a jobbing journalist before the murder and, from what I can see, lost that work once the Guards focused on him. He sells pizzas from a market stall now. He's been vilified for 25 years. I don't blame him for living off the notoriety. He's kind of damned no matter what he does.
Agreed he’s certainly not had any monetary advantage from it — unless he was paid for the podcast and/or Jim Sheridan documentary? I know he said he wasn’t for the Netflix one — and now that Jules has (thankfully) broken up with him, he’s pretty much indigent.

But I do think he exaggerates his journalist credentials from his life in west Cork before the murder. He certainly did little bits, but he’d really fucked up his journalistic career well before he left England, tried to get started again in London, but it didn’t work out — he arrived in west Cork as a broke drifter, and worked in a pub and a fish factory and as a gardener. Ironically, the aftermath of the murder was the only time he had any kind of journalistic career in Ireland.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 08/07/2021 16:07

Yes, he kind of glossed over why he left London , didn't he?

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AppleJane · 08/07/2021 16:13

@placemats

Hair came from Sophie.

The blood analysis was so weak as to be not valid.

Bailey knew this, which is why he gave samples so readily to the police, whilst under arrest!

Sorry but I just don't buy this. Unless IB had super powers he couldn't possibly have known. Obviously you believe IB to be guilty so what do you believe is the evidence against him?

I'm no fan of IB but if we convict people for 'knowing we didn't leave any evidence behind' we'd all be in prison.

placemats · 08/07/2021 16:25

He had contacts in journalism. He was a good journalist according to one source in England before he left for Ireland.

Jules said in the DPP report she didn't trust him when he was drinking.

He went to the scene of the crime and didn't stay long - that in itself is a highly suspicious move. Why do that?

I think of all the suspects on this case the finger points to Ian Bailey. That doesn't make him the murderer.

AppleJane · 08/07/2021 17:14

None of that is evidence @placemats though. How many other men in that area were wife beaters or alcoholics? I'm pretty sure it's not zero. We could always ship him off to the nearest witch's weighing house to see if he's guilty. What century is it again?

AppleJane · 08/07/2021 17:17

Many times over around the world when there has been a 'tourist' murder, they look for another 'foreigner' to pin it on. "It's safe here, it wasn't one of us". Could that be what happened?

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