Anne Boleyn as a black woman

[Frustratedbeyondbelief]

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

www.shakespearesglobe.com/whats-on/swive-elizabeth/

Saw play "Swive" at Globe Theatre last year and a young black girl (Nina Cassells) plays the young Princess Elizabeth and white woman playing older Queen Elizabeth I - you'd expect the red hair etc so at first wondered how it would work.

The girl was terrific actress - and you realise visual resemblance is not enough - the acting carries a role and good acting will transcend. The problem would be if the acting isn't good then people's physical appearance is just another distraction.

If the kids were in a school play you wouldn't expect a black girl or boy to miss out on the good roles because they don't physically resemble the person they're playing. Why would it be different for grown-ups? It's acting.

[quote Unreasonabubble]@LondonJax OMG never thought of that! Mind you, maybe that's the reason why Elizabeth the 1st was always covered in white powder? The powder that finally killed her.[/quote]
No, she was covered in lead based white powder as was the fashion of the time and because she was badly scarred with small pox.

@Frustratedbeyondbelief

Am anyone explain why ? I know this question raises the issue of race which is highly controversial. It is not meant to be goady.. just perplexed by what they are trying to achieve. To me like playing GHandi and Martin Luther King as while men..

For context I hope my non racial credentials as a mother of mixed race children assist in not seeing this as an 'anti black' thread ... I genuinely would like to be educated as to why this is thought to be a 'good thing' when simply factually incorrect . ? Her home at Hever is less than a mile away, I have never had any idea she was black or mixed race. Just seems a bit 'trendy' ...

I'm an avid history fan so it's always tough to see things that don't match up but it doesn't do any harm. Also it gives POC more representation. A side note; Ben Kingsley played Ghandi in a biopic and he is definitely not of Asian decent, so it works both ways really.

If the kids were in a school play you wouldn't expect a black girl or boy to miss out on the good roles because they don't physically resemble the person they're playing. Why would it be different for grown-ups? It's acting.

You're comparing professional productions to school plays?

Would you be happy for white actors to play non-white historical figures? Logically, you must be.

I never understand why people care so much about this. Do they also care whether an actor's hair colour, eye colour, body shape etc are historically accurate? Why does it matter?

It isn't at all the same as having MLK or Gandhi played by a white man. Race was central to their stories, and it would be crass and insulting to have them played by white actors.

@IcedPurple Elizabeth 1st actually had a black man in her personal entourage. They were hardly thin on the ground.

Ben Kingsley’ father was Indian.

@purplebagladylovesgin

I think it's fine. People know from her portraits the colour of her skin. They will know this is historically inaccurate. If it's being filmed for entertainment and not a factual documentary then why not? Where is the issue?

Sadly they won’t. Many people today think Achilles was black, when he was white and blond, but Andromeda was white, when she was black. All thanks to Hollywood.

@Mumoftwo1990 um, Ben Kingsley, born Krishna Pandit Bhanji is most definitely of Indian descent.

I never understand why people care so much about this. Do they also care whether an actor's hair colour, eye colour, body shape etc are historically accurate? Why does it matter?

Eye or hair colour doesn't normally matter though. Someone wouldn't be treated differently if htey hav blue rather than brown eyes. The same is not true for skin colour.

It isn't at all the same as having MLK or Gandhi played by a white man. Race was central to their stories, and it would be crass and insulting to have them played by white actors.

But race is 'central' in the sense that there were no black women at the Turdor court. There were scarcely any in England, full stop. The idea that a king could marry a black woman and nobody would bat an eyelid is ridiculous. We're meant to think that people would be horrified at a female monarch, or that it was accptable to be killed because you adhered to a certain brand of Christianity, but that nobody would see anything at all wrong with a king marrying a black woman?

No, white actors get plenty of work as it is.... I get why people feel the way they do, when I first started visiting RSC plays 30 odd years ago and I'd notice black actors and had the same thought process - "but they didn't have black people in the Richard III's family. But you get over it and go oh yes I get it, it's acting....

I think it's good - other actors are allowed to be versatile. Young black actors have all the historical roles as a no no, I think that's sad. Great acting is great acting. I've seen plenty of bad acting

[quote babbaloushka]@IcedPurple Elizabeth 1st actually had a black man in her personal entourage. They were hardly thin on the ground.[/quote]
Black man, not woman.

And they were certainly thin on the ground. There were maybe a couple of hundred black people in Tudor England. Not one of them among the gentry class to which Anne Boleyn belonged.

white actors get plenty of work as it is

The vast majority of actors, whatever their skin colour, are unemployed most of the time.

Not on, this is English history, portraying a real person whether it is a documentary or not. We should respect that. We cannot and should not bend the truth to comply with a pc/tick boxing exercise or rewrite history to comply with modern expectations.

when I used the school play analogy it's to illustrate what we'd all like for our own children as they grow up and become next lot of adults. You'd really say to a great young black actress : you did a sterling job as Elizabeth 1, but that's where it starts and ends for historical roles?

I do understand and I used to have the same thoughts, but it's an exposure issue - as I say RSC have always had black actors in roles on stage so the idea of historical plays etc with black actors is common and moving to TV is next step.

I've seen some terrible MacBeths and they were the correct colour but shit. I'd rather see a great actor playing a role what ever they look like. If you're distracted by someone's appearance whilst they're acting, then they are a rubbish actor is the problem.

It isn't at all the same as having MLK or Gandhi played by a white man. Race was central to their stories, and it would be crass and insulting to have them played by white actors.

I’ve basically said this above, as have others. Race is NOT integral to her story. A black actor playing her doesn’t make her story about race. A drama about MLK would be based around his role in the civil rights movement where being a BLACK leader is very much the point. If Anne’s blackness is not mentioned at all in the show then it doesn’t matter for the story.

Macbeth, best get it right...

@Roystonv

Not on, this is English history, portraying a real person whether it is a documentary or not. We should respect that. We cannot and should not bend the truth to comply with a pc/tick boxing exercise or rewrite history to comply with modern expectations.

Don't be daft. This is fictional entertainment, based on real people but nevertheless the writer's particular interpretation and dramatisation of events.

If you're distracted by someone's appearance whilst they're acting, then they are a rubbish actor is the problem.

Where do you draw the line?

A male playing a female role?

A 50 year old playing a 15 year old?

If appearance doesn't matter, why not?

It's made me this the programme will be ridiculous before I've even watched it...

• think

you'll never see a white person cast as a character that was historically known to be any other race

probably not in my lifetime... but I hope will be possible not long later.

White DC were in a play where they (& almost entire cast) played another race. Lots of criticism so now that play (King & I) is pretty impossible to put on in a predominantly white area.

We cannot and should not bend the truth to comply with a pc/tick boxing exercise or rewrite history to comply with modern expectations

It is not a PC/box-ticking exercise. It is an artistic production.

If you are so obsessed with race you can't watch a story without thinking about that, that is your issue.

*A male playing a female role?

A 50 year old playing a 15 year old?*

These things happen frequently, particularly male/female roles being played by the opposite sex. The actual age of actors is very often is irrelevant to the role. 50 playing a 15 year old might make it difficult to suspend disbelief, but perhaps not depending on the production.

@AssassinatedBeauty

*A male playing a female role?

A 50 year old playing a 15 year old?*

These things happen frequently, particularly male/female roles being played by the opposite sex. The actual age of actors is very often is irrelevant to the role. 50 playing a 15 year old might make it difficult to suspend disbelief, but perhaps not depending on the production.

Have you got an example of an actor playing a known historical figure of the opposite sex?

And we agree that an actor's appearance can make it impossible to suspend disbelief. For me, being expected to believe that nobody at the Tudor court would bat an eyelid at the king marrying a black woman has that effect.