The Surrogates

[katedan]

Hi anyone else watching this.? I am on the 3rd episode having binge watched this afternoon, really interesting stories.

I admit that the one I was most sorry for was Caitlin. she was economically and emotionally vulnerable.

But I really think that none of them had any idea of what they were letting themselves in for.

I'll be interested to see if they follow them on other episodes (I've only watched the first two, but there's at least one more to come).

There's a thread on this in Feminism.

I found it horribly disturbing, and it really scares me that we will end up being like the US with commercial surrogacy.

I found it disturbing, too - there's a huge power imbalance (especially re" Caitlin and her boss).

I will believe that surrogacy is totally selfless when rich woman are providing "womb space" for poor ones.

The fact that there are agencies which have sprung up tells us all we need to know - because I'll bet they aren't charities!

Thanks for the tip-off about the feminism thread - I'll look for it.

Can somebody link the feminism thread? I looked but couldn’t find it

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4190209-Surrogacy-again-why-is-the-BBC-selling-this

I think there was more to it regarding david. His parents weren't particularly enthusiastic about it and I got the impression that his sister wanted nothing to do with it. It was as if they were thinking 'this is one of david's hare brained ideas again.' And the relationship with the couple struck me as odd, can't put my finger on it.
The last women was very obviously flirting with the husband of the surrogate couple at that social meetup. He husband looked incredibly uncomfortable and there was definitely some kind of weird power dynamic going on with her.

@Schonerlebnis

I think there was more to it regarding david. His parents weren't particularly enthusiastic about it and I got the impression that his sister wanted nothing to do with it. It was as if they were thinking 'this is one of david's hare brained ideas again.' And the relationship with the couple struck me as odd, can't put my finger on it. The last women was very obviously flirting with the husband of the surrogate couple at that social meetup. He husband looked incredibly uncomfortable and there was definitely some kind of weird power dynamic going on with her.

David said himself that he found it very difficult to trust anyone as a result of his difficult childhood that had involved bullying. He appeared to assume he would never have a partner. And perhaps he had actually decided on that, feeling strongly he couldn't trust anybody enough to BE his partner?

Yet it really seemed to not occur to him that a parent with major trust issues is going to have an impact on a child ! (Doubly so I would have thought if that parent is the only parent.) There was no mention of him having had any therapy or other professional help to address his trust issues. I felt he was very keen on the IDEA of a child.

Yes, I too wondered if he was on the spectrum. This comes with its own set of issues.

Horrifying, really, that someone can become a parent in these circumstances with no checks carried out on their suitability. The process around adoption and fostering is thorough and arduous for very good reasons.

@TurquoiseLemur

There are no additional checks in place for people in a male/female couple who want to have a baby and sometimes this means ‘unsuitable’ couples procreate. Nothing anyone can do to stop that! I suppose David’s situation is nearer to that than adopting a child from a complicated background.

Maddie really reminded me of Lucy Spraggan

I wonder how much the others were paid. It only mentioned the amount for one of them

@purpleme12 Maddie reminded me of Lucy Spraggan too.

[quote Tallulahtravels]@TurquoiseLemur

There are no additional checks in place for people in a male/female couple who want to have a baby and sometimes this means ‘unsuitable’ couples procreate. Nothing anyone can do to stop that! I suppose David’s situation is nearer to that than adopting a child from a complicated background.[/quote]
As you say, no-one can do anything to stop that. Unfortunately. (I am a child of two such people myself.)

But in the surrogate scenario, something COULD be done in this regard. It would mean, of course, that the state (social workers, etc) would have to be involved in the selection procedures. For both surrogate and the intended parents. No bad thing. David himself appeared to have complicated background, so did Kate and her husband (didn't catch his name.) So did most of the surrogates.

I suspect David's parenting of a small baby might be okay. But if a parent has major trust issues and doesn't appear to relate well to other people, that is definitely going to have an impact later. Like some other posters, I senses David's parents reluctance. And it would have been interesting to hear from the sister about why she is definitely not supportive of his choice. (Her objections might be rooted in homophobia, but not necessarily.)

@Schonerlebnis

I think there was more to it regarding david. His parents weren't particularly enthusiastic about it and I got the impression that his sister wanted nothing to do with it. It was as if they were thinking 'this is one of david's hare brained ideas again.' And the relationship with the couple struck me as odd, can't put my finger on it. The last women was very obviously flirting with the husband of the surrogate couple at that social meetup. He husband looked incredibly uncomfortable and there was definitely some kind of weird power dynamic going on with her.

I have only seen two episodes, so not the flirting bit, but I also got the impression that David's parents were frankly not in favour - in fact embarrassed by his determination to have a child - and like you, that they regarded it as a fad, and that the only reason his fad had lasted so long was because he hadn't been able to realise it.

I wonder if he was one of those people who always went mad for something, then the minute they got it lost interest?

I got the impression that they were traditional and thought a baby should have a mum and a dad. Probably didn’t want to say that outright to him.

I completely agree there was something not right. Unsure why the surrogate agreed to it as I also felt he was very cold and very entitled in his behaviour. But then I’m not sure how you can really assess someone’s suitability to be a parent.

I also just thought that the dad especially was more traditional in his views, but didn't get that there was any more to it that that

I assume that David's surrogate gave her permission that he could come in the pool like that. I mean it's not something you'd do without their permission!

I felt terribly sorry for Faye. She is a professional woman, seems happily married and has 2 healthy dc - she seems to be in a good position. But there she is openly saying that by being a surrogate she can prove to people that she is a good person and can raise her self esteem. I thought she came across as a bit mentally unbalanced at times too. A very sad situation, and she seems very keen to do it again.

I've come across this article talking about how Caitlin ended up bubbling with her boss Kate during lockdown. It seems 6 months after the birth, Kate's husband left her.

www.bustle.com/entertainment/what-happened-to-caitlin-kate-from-the-surrogates

Like a few of you, I had reservations about the employee dynamic and the sweep conversation but I certainly hadn't anticipated the IP's relationship breaking down.

I've actually been a surrogate and that is one of the many things we discussed before signing our agreement- what happens in the unlikely event of your relationship ending before the parental order is granted? Or one or both of them dying?

I offered to be a surrogate for a same sex couple who've been friends of mine for nearly 20 years. Everything was done through the clinics, lawyers, counsellors, donor egg and frozen embryos with one of them being the genetic father and unfortunately the 1st attempt ended in a miscarriage at the beginning of the 2nd trimester.
It was a missed miscarriage so we found out at the ultrasound (having had 2 previous positive scans) rather than the potentially frightening experience of miscarriage at home. I use these words as everyone responds differently.

I have twin children of my own in their teens and I'm a single mother, professional woman also running my own business. I suspect I earn more than the IPs put together and I've noticed a lot of the posts are about an imbalance of power and money.

I have to admit that whether or not richer surrogate mothers would offer, the question of expenses could make it more difficult to cover for a woman who earns relatively well.

It would be naive to expect a woman to be left out of pocket whilst risking all she does and the impact on her family, work, all areas of her health and even just the things she misses out on because of being a responsible adult whilst pregnant.

A few people questioned £7K in expenses by 4 months. Whilst I don't know the individual expenses for that woman I can tell you as someone who has had my own multiple pregnancy plus been a surrogate that being pregnant is actually a lot more costly than you realise because when it's your own child you're not necessarily totting up the mileage. Why should you pay for hospital parking when the law says the IPs should pay for it? If they were able to carry then they would pay it wouldn't they?

When you actually have to stop and think, would I be doing this or needing this if I were not pregnant and you have a separate bank account you use for those times then you'll surprise yourself with the cost.
Because of the medical situation involved with embryo transfers: trips to clinics for tests, usually out of town, lost earnings if not covered by an employer/sick pay, I needed to buy bottled water as I was vomiting up the water I'd drunk for over a decade at home. That's 2 litres a day. Would I be drinking bottled water if I were not pregnant? No. That's a surrogacy expense. All the hormones you need to take are the same as per IVF so additional panty liners, knickers, handcream for your raw hands with all the extra washing for using pessaries 3-4 times a day.
There are so many hidden costs then if you're too unwell to work when the sickness is all day. There are more hospital appts with this type of pregnancy.
I could no longer do the school run due to the motion sickness and the hour round trip and my bladder did not go well with lockdown not having any open facilities to stop and use so after I wet myself in the car a couple of times expenses needed to include transport.
So yes, £7k can be reached very easily by 4 months...mine didn't because I did leave myself out of pocket trying not to include my loss of earnings for appointments, which did end up taking up the whole day for some of them.

I was uncomfortable about the money aspect due to the friendship and being an independent person but I was also equally shocked by how expensive being pregnant actually is. I know any woman who's ever had to buy maternity wear knows that but I doubt she's ever had to sit and work out all the other hidden expenses. I haven't even mentioned getting my will redone, life insurance, private healthcare- in the event of any complications I wanted that additional protection and it was very useful given the miscarriage and getting counselling immediately and covered rather than the IPs then having to fork out and not knowing how many sessions I may end up needing.

As I need a break following the miscarriage and I need to make up for time out of my business during a tough 1st trimester everything is open as to whether we will go again. They have a good number of embryos left and I fully support them in being parents and even finding an alternate surrogate because the reality is I also have other commitments and responsibilities.

There's no pretending that money doesn't come into it and that's why they say reasonable expenses but ultimately as a surrogate mother you need to want to do it freely and willingly and believe in the intended parents and have considered that you're the one who risks the most along with your family. And also be very clear as to why you're doing it plus also be able to advocate fir yourself as having a baby is emotional and stressful for all involved- including the sonographers who may need to give you bad news.

I agree with some posters that some women might be trying to fill a void with surrogacy and if after seeking appropriate care they still want to go ahead then great, otherwise the potential damage just remains an unknown until it surfaces.

I also think people can underestimate a surrogate's ability to know what she is doing and not feel traumatised if she has always been clear that this was not a child she was a planning a life with.

As for any trauma inflicted on the baby, nobody can claim to fully understand that as each situation is different and time will tell as more surrogate babies become adults and share their stories.

If the intention was always to offer this wonderful gift to people whom you either have always cared for or have come to care for and the child will be raised with love then that's all we can hold as certain. Surrogacy isn't for everyone and it's not intended to be. I know for example that I could never donate my eggs or be a surrogate using my eggs. I have plenty still in stick and whilst I don't want any more children of my own, I also know I couldn't stand a watch my biological child being raised elsewhere. Everyone feels differently about all these things.

Questions around who holds the baby first- the birth plan belongs to the pregnant woman. It's always her choice, she can even refuse to have the couple in the room. Her body throughout the pregnancy then hopefully their baby after. If the IPs don't respect her wishes and if they try to pressure her then they shouldn't be surprised if things go wrong.

I'm not saying pregnant women aren't vulnerable but that's why when done legally, with the right support etc the risks of things going wrong should be fewer. But life and shit happen.

I know this thread is a bit old but I thought I’d just add on my own thoughts. My boyfriend and I are currently IP’s during a surrogacy journey with SurrogacyUK. I need to explain that intended parents have THOROUGH background checks. We’ve had to do an in depth DBS, had to have psychological checks, had to have people check our home etc. The same goes for surrogates. The documentary worked with SurrogacyUK who’s ethos is all about altruistic surrogacy. All of the women who are accepted as a surrogate (the head of surrogacy explained that about 50% of women who enquire about becoming a surrogate are declined because of their health) understand that the baby that they are creating isn’t for them to keep and want to help people become parents. I’ve spoken to many surrogates who have expressed that they enjoy helping a couple (like myself and my boyfriend) become parents. One even said they know that the “surrobabe” is theirs to ‘give back’ and have no desire to keep them. Legally, yes they are the mother. It’s a lot for both sides because you’re trusting them to give your baby to you but equally they’re trusting you to do your parental order to become the baby’s legal parents. We’ve all been told that the law is changing this year so that legal parenthood goes straight to the intended parents.

Both sides have a “get to know period”. This means that the surrogate has chosen someone/ a couple that she likes and wants to get to know to see if they “click”. Its so important for both the surrogate and the IP’s to be on the same page and just generally have a lot in common, regardless of the surrogacy. It is down to surrogate to to make that offer to get to know, at no point is she coerced into doing anything against her will. Each party can accept or decline the surrogate/ IP’s if it doesn’t feel right.

I understand that people won’t always agree with surrogacy. In other countries surrogacy uses women and isn’t ethical. In countries like Ukraine, they use women who are poor and do not have any regards to their bodies. SurrogacyUK has shown us that the organisation has created long lasting friendships, families etc… your surrogate does become like extended family and you welcome their children, partner, parents into your life. It really is a beautiful thing that someone can do for you.

People will say “Why don’t you just adopt?”. To be honest, I want to have a chance to have my own biological baby with the man I love (we have done IVF). I was born without a womb but have my ovaries so have been told for a very long time that this is my only option to have a biological baby.

If anyone has any questions, I will be happy to answer x

Good luck, EeeeBeee , I hope it works out for you.