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The Surrogates

93 replies

katedan · 14/03/2021 17:33

Hi anyone else watching this.? I am on the 3rd episode having binge watched this afternoon, really interesting stories.

OP posts:
TurquoiseLemur · 24/03/2021 12:23

Given the physical and emotional toll that pregnancy takes (even in the best scenario), £14000 sounds cheap. The commissioning parents are getting an extremely good deal. I know there is an argument that surrogacy should be altruistic. . . .but in the real world, is it really? Can it be? In most cases?

Shortiemyboo · 24/03/2021 13:26

Today 08:39 RevolvingPivot

I'll get you a bag from Primark and a McDonald's. I'd want more than that gringrin

She kept going on about how the surrogate really wanted that bag!

Lantanacamara · 24/03/2021 13:59

Turquoise it's not supposed to be a "good deal" though. It is supposed to be expenses only, and no way can an unemployed SAHM's 16 weeks of pregnancy cost £7k. She was financially benefitting from it, and given her insecurities regarding money that worries me that that is why she is doing it (and is contemplating it again).
It's like me volunteering for a charity but then charging them for the day as an expense. All of the women on the programme seemed vulnerable to an extent and the fact that wealthy people can pay to "access a womb" is deeply troubling me.

RevolvingPivot · 24/03/2021 14:17

I turned it off after that as my dd walked in and said it looked boring but I'll continue to watch.

TurquoiseLemur · 24/03/2021 14:47

What I mean by "a good deal" is that the couples, all of them financially comfortable unless I have misunderstood, have been able to access a womb for much less than in some countries. They could afford more but they don't have to pay more because it is "expenses only."

I don't think it's remotely comparable to someone volunteering for a charity and then charging for the day. There are plenty of risks to the mother's health physical and emotional health with a pregnancy, far more than with most volunteering.

I agree that these women seemed very vulnerable. I felt both Mia and the last woman definitely (the one who was attending an event 2 weeks after giving birth) were making poor choices and that they were in real need of proper mental health support. (Mia's mother at least had the self awareness to know that she WAS depressed; the mother of Baby K seemed to be living on another planet.)

My general view is that surrogacy should only be allowed in cases of sisters or very close friends and without money being exchanged. None of these IPs seemed to really grasp that pregnant women are not just wombs on legs and the exchange of money (a little or lot) seems to exacerbate that attitude.

RevolvingPivot · 24/03/2021 20:49

@BigSandyBalls2015

She def seemed to fancy the dad and envied their lifestyle. All very odd! Her DH looked gutted when she was gushing about him.
I'd hoped they wouldn't go with her as I can imagine her being overbearing.
Mooey89 · 26/03/2021 18:14

The single gay man really got my hackles up. It just felt like he saw it as rent a womb. No thought or consideration given to the fact that the baby would be ripped from the only thing it knows at birth, to meet his needs, when his mum asked if he thought a child should have a mother. It was all about ‘I can be both’. Well yes, of course, but you can’t meet that need, and if you are going to undertake this, you should at least be able to articulate why you are ethically square on that point.
This was just magnified for me when he got into the pool for the birth, and took the baby straight to his chest. The surrogate reached out for the baby and he kept holding. I’m sorry, but even if she isn’t planning to be the parent, the baby should be on her chest, unless it’s her choice not to.

Bedsheets4knickers · 26/03/2021 18:17

Just put it on .

Lantanacamara · 26/03/2021 18:24

I've been reading about attachment issues (adoption related) and apparently separation from birth mother by itself is considered a form of trauma for the baby. I wonder has any research been done about this with surrogacy? I remember years ago watching a programme about the first gay male couple to be same sex parents through surrogacy in the UK. They had 3 or 4 dc from different surrogates, one of them was a girl and the parents wouldn't allow her contact with her birth mother and it was obvious she was suffering.

Chouxbuncity · 26/03/2021 19:10

@Mooey89 he irritated me too- I think it was how entitled he came across- as though he felt he was ‘owed’ the chance to be a parent. I imagine he was really affected by the bullying he experienced, he wasn’t very open and seemed suspicious and non trusting of people. So weird when he got in the birthing pool Confused the dynamic between the three of them was very strange in my opinion.

I’m not sure on the evidence of the trauma of being separated from Mum at birth. Unfortunately I was separated from my DC at birth as he needed weeks in NICU but there wasn’t much that could be done about that.

Mooey89 · 26/03/2021 19:20

@Chouxbuncity Sorry to hear that my lovely. I think there is a huge different because actively choosing that and it happening unavoidably.

Bedsheets4knickers · 26/03/2021 19:35

How can they insure their is no financial gain ?

Chouxbuncity · 26/03/2021 19:38

I would just be interested if there is any evidence. My little one seems ok and not much that can be done as you say! But if it is a trauma for babies then the baby wouldn’t know if the separation was for medical reasons or social ones- the effect would presumably be the same.

Lantanacamara · 26/03/2021 21:50

@Chouxbuncity I too was separated from dc2 due to prematurity but I don't think that is the same at all. These babies go immediately from the womb of someone and then they leave them very soon after (it seems some of them within hours) and probably have little quality contact with them. A newborn baby in care can see its birth parents up to five times per week for example. It's just interesting that social services/adoption agencies make a big point of talking about the baby's trauma of leaving it's birth mother, yet don't have anything to say about this arrangement.

RhubarbTea · 26/03/2021 22:58

The single gay man set off all kind of red flags to me

Yes, me too! Loads of them. I do think he was traumatised by childhood stuff (bullying? Or something else unmentioned, maybe) and seemed very angry at women, which gave me pause. He made me feel uncomfortable. I agree with another poster he seemed to feel he had a right to be a parent.

I think there should be a requirement for all people in surrogacy to undergo extensive counselling and psychotherapy (1 year+) beforehand, and the same checks and interviews that prospective adoptive parents have to undergo. Then I think it could be more ethical but somehow still makes me feel uneasy and sad. I felt almost everyone in the prog was unstable in some way and the surrogates were intensely vulnerable. It was a difficult watch and like many I went into it really open minded and positive.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 27/03/2021 20:00

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

Surrogacy is gross. Taking a newborn baby away from the only mother it knows to fulfill someone else's want for a child is fucking awful. No wonder it's illegal in most countries.
I agree - it is effectively buying a human being: a form of slavery.
JSL52 · 31/03/2021 20:58

Felt sorry for Emma , she seemed vulnerable.
Once the baby was born I think she was hoping for a relationship with the couple , I don't think that was going to happen.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 01/04/2021 21:05

The baby latching on to the gay man's nipple, quite honestly was disgusting - particularly while her mother was effectively ignored. That duple will wash her out of their lives as soon as they can, I'd bet my life on it.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 01/04/2021 21:05

*couple, not duple

elliejjtiny · 01/04/2021 21:46

I found David's attitude very weird and unsettling. Felt like Faye was just a vessel to him, particularly when he got in the pool with her. The scene where he was holding the baby in the pool and she had to pretty much sit on his lap because the cord was still attached was really sad. It should only be the mum holding the baby when the baby is still attached to the mum via the cord I think.

JSL52 · 01/04/2021 21:57

@elliejjtiny

I found David's attitude very weird and unsettling. Felt like Faye was just a vessel to him, particularly when he got in the pool with her. The scene where he was holding the baby in the pool and she had to pretty much sit on his lap because the cord was still attached was really sad. It should only be the mum holding the baby when the baby is still attached to the mum via the cord I think.
She was a vessel. He said a couple of times he didn't have 'access to a woman's body'

Realistically once they've had the baby , they don't need anything to do with the surrogate.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 02/04/2021 06:45

@elliejjtiny

I found David's attitude very weird and unsettling. Felt like Faye was just a vessel to him, particularly when he got in the pool with her. The scene where he was holding the baby in the pool and she had to pretty much sit on his lap because the cord was still attached was really sad. It should only be the mum holding the baby when the baby is still attached to the mum via the cord I think.
I thought that - I thought his comments about not having "access to a womb" were frankly chilling. he didn't seem to regard women as human beings - they were just an end to his obtaining a child. I felt it all seemed to be a big ego-boost to him. ("This is what I want." " I need this now.")

My hear ached for Caitlyn whose relationship broke up and those baby was practically snatched out of her arms after he was born - they way the doctor and her boss, Kate, spoke bout her as though she wasn't even in the room when deciding that she would have a sweep. I wonder what her relationship with her boss is now? How she feels when Kate is coming in with "Baby did this, Baby has tooth, Baby didn't sleep last night" etc.

I'd be interested to know which of them first broached the topic of surrogacy.

Lantanacamara · 02/04/2021 10:31

Schadenfraude it said at the end that they were still close and Emma was considering surrogating for them again. She was so obviously desperate for company and validation that I could see her being a prolific surrogate.

I think David was on the spectrum and that is why he was so blunt with his words.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 02/04/2021 11:08

Thanks, Lantanacmara

I'd wondered about Emma, too. I felt very sorry for her, she seemed really lonely.

I hadn't thought about David being autistic. I didn't get than impression but it's such a huge spectrum, maybe you are right.

I didn't get the impression that his parents were terribly thrilled about him having a child on his own. I wonder if they are worried that he will cope?

Lantanacamara · 02/04/2021 12:56

She was a vessel

When you pick surrogacy apart though the surrogates are just vessels though. These intended parents in the bluntest of terms are just looking to access a womb to have a child of their own. As nice as they might be to the surrogate and invested in her during the pregnancy, once that baby is born the first thing they all did was reach out for the baby, even when it was still attached to the mother.

David said a few things that my ds (who is autistic) would say, and that combined with his incredibly blunt way of speaking made me think it was possible he was on the spectrum. Out of all of them I did think he was the one that was the most connected to the surrogate (albeit in his own quite strange way) and I think it is likely that they will be lifelong friends.

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