It's a Sin, 9 pm Channel 4, 22nd Jan CONTAINS SPOILERS **titled edited by MNHQ**

[notawittyname1954]

I keep seeing trailers for this. Anyone else looking forward to it?

I broke my heart at this series, I really did...
I think the bonfire at the back for doris, showing the photo of him as a wee baby,,,,
tears flowed for good hour after

Do you know what I wondered? Whether there were any families that reacted in the way Gloria's had, that watched It's a Sin. And whether they regretted the way they dealt with it then. Gloria's Dad was actually quite scary. I'm not sure how I'd have coped with the level of aggression he directed towards Jill. I wonder how many parents like him existed and whether they too burned every last trace. I also wondered if these parents passed off the deaths of their children as another illness altogether. Doubtful that Football shirts' mum told anyone her son (if indeed he did) died of aids.

@Smallgoon I wouldn't mind betting that Gloria's dad's reaction was a common one. Times were very different then. People like Gloria's dad would have lived through a time when being gay was against the law. I'm not saying that his behaviour is excusable or acceptable necessarily, just that attitudes to non - conventional lifestyles would have been very different to now. I'm an oldie and I was already a fully fledged adult in the 80s. Even living in a city, I can't remember one man who lived an openly gay lifestyle at that time.

I loved this series - powerful, moving and important and nothing should take away from this .... but I do think all the portrayals of women were a little odd - Jill the surrogate mum/skivvy with no life of her own, the sulky/selfish/resentful sisters (Ritchie's, Gloria's, even Roscoe's was selfish), Colin's mum - lovely, but incredibly naive - to the point where she almost seemed thick, Ritchie's mum - stuffy, overbearing and controlling ... but then morphed into a complete bitch - that didn't feel believable to me, although I can see it was interesting plot-wise. And the people with bad attitudes who came round? The men - Roscoe's dad and Ritchie's dad. It's annoying for RTD I'm sure to get all these criticisms and it really shouldn't detract from the series - essentially the main focus is and should be 'the boys' ... but he could have avoided this by fleshing out Jill more and perhaps switching some of the arseholes to be men, ... and including more of the lesbians who helped so much during that time.

I don't think it is a problem for RTD to read criticism of the series; I'm a teacher and if I was being observed, I'd expect my line manager to pick out areas first development.

Screen writers just get their 'Even Better Ifs' from the general public

@user1471448556

I loved this series - powerful, moving and important and nothing should take away from this .... but I do think all the portrayals of women were a little odd - Jill the surrogate mum/skivvy with no life of her own, the sulky/selfish/resentful sisters (Ritchie's, Gloria's, even Roscoe's was selfish), Colin's mum - lovely, but incredibly naive - to the point where she almost seemed thick, Ritchie's mum - stuffy, overbearing and controlling ... but then morphed into a complete bitch - that didn't feel believable to me, although I can see it was interesting plot-wise. And the people with bad attitudes who came round? The men - Roscoe's dad and Ritchie's dad. It's annoying for RTD I'm sure to get all these criticisms and it really shouldn't detract from the series - essentially the main focus is and should be 'the boys' ... but he could have avoided this by fleshing out Jill more and perhaps switching some of the arseholes to be men, ... and including more of the lesbians who helped so much during that time.

I completely agree. It is a story about the men, and they should be and are the main priority. But it can't be that hard, especially for a writer of RTD's stature to create well-rounded female characters. I hated that Jill was just a skivvy. A sponge to mop up the emotions, puke and party mess of the important men around her. When Keeley Hawes asked her at the end why she did this and didn't have a life herself, I thought, fair question. That could have been played with love not vitriol. And the baffling scene where Jill says 'It's your fault'. Ritchie's promiscuity is a product of shame due entirely to his mother? Not his father's aggression? All his mother's fault. Not that Jill's viewpoint is necessarily RTD's but such an odd response from a woman who is so saintly in her empathy to the men.

I thought this was an interesting but flawed script. Some brilliant stuff in it - and a great education for people who didn't live through the era, but a bit blunt in the final episodes, when the earlier ones were so subtly done.

I think Ritchie's Mum was a tortured soul, obviously loved her son but found it hard to understand his sexuality. I just think his dad was a lost cause and wouldn't even try to sympathise.

Yes, so why was it Ritchie's dad who came round at the end, whilst his mum became completely unsympathetic?

@StellaAndCrow

Yes, so why was it Ritchie's dad who came round at the end, whilst his mum became completely unsympathetic?

Because his child was dying perhaps?

His dad crumbled didn't he and his mum was angry with him.

In defence of Richie's mum, she was given absolutely no time to come to terms with the situation. She'd been lied to for years. Her anger was understandable to an extent.

An excellent piece here critiquing some of the narrative. Not sure how much I agree with (I didn't see Colin's encounters as necessarily forced, as discussed by pp here) but it's a thoughtful piece.
brianmullin.substack.com/p/howd-you-get-it-such-a-shame

That's a well-written piece. Many activists at the time were critical of those documenting people dying from AIDS as opposed to those living with it. That said, this series is 1981-1991 and in that first decade, fewer were living with it - that's the point.
It is also interesting he views Colin as a victim as it goes against the argument the author is making - that it is too easy to fall into the trap of victimizing people with AIDS - why can't Colin be seen as just as likely as any straight person of enjoying a bit of rough sex: empowered as opposed to reduced to victim. Shut up you little bender isn't that dissimilar to a woman being told to take it you slut whilst having sex: whilst I might not find that palatable or acceptable, it's not up to me to judge those that wouldn't care or mind (although the phrase used as above is to show the landlady's son's own denial).
As for not showing condoms (which was also a criticism in QAF) I think RTD was showing the reality for some that barebacking was preferable and there were certainly some men who decided they would rather not give up the sexual freedom they had worked so hard for or who wanted the same status as their friends/partners or who saw it as inevitable so lived in the moment. Knowing the backlash there might be to that, RTD was actually quite brave depicting Ritchie as he did. It would have been the coward's way out to not show him in all his complexity. I really saw him as human rather than demonised.
I do think the author is right in that it might have shown balance had Ash had careful condomed sex with Ritchie anyway whilst knowing his status; but no doubt critics would have had something to say about that too. You did see gay men posting info in clubs and trying to hand out condoms iirc - perhaps those scenes should have carried more weight as the gay community were pivotal in the early 80s for getting word out and taking a proactive stance.
As for lesbian support, RTD has mentioned he wishes he had been able to tell their stories too but was bound by time restrictions. The Jill character was a love letter to his Jill, perhaps he was too close to her to show her warts and all.
I believe either the Colin outcome or the Ritchie dying without friends being allowed to say goodbye were true, or maybe both, certainly RTD speaks of hoping to have done justice to one real, unforgettable and harrowing story Jill had told him of.
The idea of the mother as hero or villain is more problematic, I agree, but if in their lived experience RTD and JN only encountered unconditional support (white), going home but in shame (grey) rejection or denial (black) and you only have five hours, you try and include all three reactions, don't you? Gay men being closer to their mothers than fathers is a well-worn stereotype however.

That article suffers from factual errors (It's A Sin was released 1987 not 1984) and the use of that awful word 'cis' (also much mention of transwomen but, as usual, no mention of transmen).

Watched the final episode last night and on first viewing Ritchies mum just irritated me. Over the top, rude and virtually kept him a prisoner whilst he was dying
Watched again this morning when I was slightly less emotional and could see it came from a place of love but not necessarily of understanding.
She wanted to cling onto her son after realising she didn’t know him at all.
It was intriguing that his dad who was portrayed as the racist/homophobe only cared in the end about losing his son.
Ritchie was loved at the end.

The man in hospital with Jill was absolutely heartbreaking. Just unthinkable that this actually happened.

This series will stay with me a long time

I admire the fact that RTD made Richie openly promiscuous. Also I thought the scene where Richie completely dismissed AIDS was brilliantly executed and obviously foreshadowed his fate. Colin led a sheltered life while Richie had a wild lifestyle but they were both human beings who deserve our compassion.
Richie was so bright and full of life. He jumped off the screen. I hope Olly gets the awards he deserves because it's one of the best performances I've seen all year.

[quote absolutetelynotfabulous]@Smallgoon I wouldn't mind betting that Gloria's dad's reaction was a common one. Times were very different then. People like Gloria's dad would have lived through a time when being gay was against the law. I'm not saying that his behaviour is excusable or acceptable necessarily, just that attitudes to non - conventional lifestyles would have been very different to now. I'm an oldie and I was already a fully fledged adult in the 80s. Even living in a city, I can't remember one man who lived an openly gay lifestyle at that time.[/quote]
It's worth remembering also (because I think this is very often forgotten/unknown) that whilst homosexuality was legalised in England and Wales in 1967, it remained illegal in Scotland until 1981.

@FourSeasonsTotalLandscaping I never knew that and I'm Scottish! Wow.

It's worth remembering also (because I think this is very often forgotten/unknown) that whilst homosexuality was legalised in England and Wales in 1967, it remained illegal in Scotland until 1981.

Wow. Shocking when you think about it.

The real Jill is about to be interviewed on ITV News London.

FourSeasons absolutely!
It may have been legal in the '80s, but i can still remember my obviously gay friends and i having bricks thrown at us (literally) when we walked down certain streets. The animosity increased of course, once the epidemic became more widely publicised.

@Jellykat that is despicable

@Jellykat - sadly beating up gay men & women is all too prevalent. Despicable vermin who do it.

Couldn't agree more..

Hope someones going to join me for a watch in a bit! I still haven't binged.

Can we agree that Stephen Fry was awful in this... I cringed whenever he was on screen.

Me neither Jellykat. It's too good and I want to make it last.

Smallgoon couldn't agree more.