It's a Sin, 9 pm Channel 4, 22nd Jan CONTAINS SPOILERS **titled edited by MNHQ**

[notawittyname1954]

I keep seeing trailers for this. Anyone else looking forward to it?

Was it just me that wondered whether Donald actually had KS? It looked like a birthmark on his back to me?

Been obsessively reading and watching stuff about the aids crisis since I finished this (including both programmes mentioned above on prime - not the third as it is PPV, also going to order the two books mentioned too). I'm embarrassed how little I knew about the history, though I was born mid eighties so assume that is part of why. The virology I'm fairly well informed on as it was covered in my degree, so I am part of GenPop who did know about PrEP (and PEP)

Oh, I hadn't considered that it could have just been a birthmark and that Ritchie was assuming it was KS. I thought that given how little much of the audience knew about AIDS and how it affected people, it was more showing us that it was one of the signs.

I'm not sure of the time sequence of episodes now, but my vague memory was that that night was the first time they'd 'done it properly' or whatever the expression they used was.

Oh, I hadn't considered that it could have just been a birthmark and that Ritchie was assuming it was KS. I thought that given how little much of the audience knew about AIDS and how it affected people, it was more showing us that it was one of the signs

I think it was KS. Donald infected Ritchie. It was the first time they'd had penetrative sex and they have a conversation about not using condoms ad they're both 'clean'. There's a later conversation with the agent about 'Donald has gone home' which is taken to mean he's gone home to be nursed as he's dying from AIDS. Later in the hospital when Ritchie is dying he actually says he thinks Donald gave it to him.

Obviously, in real life, we wouldn't know for certain, but I think all those clues were there so we can point to when Ritchie gets it and see his his subsequent behaviour.

Yes, that was my impression too.

Ritchie can't be sure - he shagged plenty of guys before Donald. They could have both been infected independently.

@Twizbe

Colin was a very sweet character. We as an audience almost want to believe that he was an 'innocent victim' of the disease. 'We' want to believe he was raped because that means he didn't do anything to deserve his infection.

I wasn't sure if Colin was raped or not (wasn't sure if it was pleasure or not) and now I see he wasn't, but I just think Colin was a shy, innocent Welsh valleys boy and had his first 'experiences' which weren't necessarily what he would've wanted but he wanted to explore his sexuality.

Colin was a very sweet character - the side when he shows he fancied Ritchie in the hospital bed but was too shy to say it, really laid bare that he was quite naive. His mum was lovely though - she had to deal with so many issues around Colin including coping with her disability and she was just so accepting of everything, which is refreshing for those times when homosexuality was still a dirty word.

I've only got as far as the episode in which Colin dies. I had insomnia for hours thinking about it last night. How sad that he never got to find love, that he was such a sweet man, who adored every tiny crumb life threw him. I've been warned it keeps getting sadder and am not sure i can face the last two episodes what with mid winter and lockdown already dragging life down. But it is brilliant.

I didn't necessarily view Colin gripping his bum/shouting "yes" as clear cut as therefore=consensual. I think he was taken advantage of, definitely, but whether that quite points to rape, who knows. It is certainly possible to orgasm from rape anyway, so that doesn't "prove" it was consensual, any more than roughness "proves" it wasn't iyswim?

Sorry lost thread, I just think it all got a bit much for Colin and that is why he moved out , pages ago I said he might have been coerced but another poster said it probably got out of control the landlady's son was domineering, which might be a better explanation.

People who are nice, hardworking, shy, easily pleased etc are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. The whole “maybe it was rape’ is just another way of making one AIDS victim more worthy than another.

@SimonJT

People who are nice, hardworking, shy, easily pleased etc are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. The whole “maybe it was rape’ is just another way of making one AIDS victim more worthy than another.

Totally agree @SimonJT

Everyone thinks Colin is so sweet and lovely that he couldn't have possibly have enjoyed a bit of rough. And are now making excuses about it because they seem to think he didn't 'deserve' to get AIDS.

None of them did, however and wherever they caught it.

@SimonJT

People who are nice, hardworking, shy, easily pleased etc are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. The whole “maybe it was rape’ is just another way of making one AIDS victim more worthy than another.

Exactly, also this:

Yes Colin was clearly a willing participant. Sometimes you can be a willing participant in relationships that have a power imbalance that clearly isn't good for you.

Not so relevant but thought I'd share this as thought it rather a lovely exchange between two people, one of whom (Maurice) contracted HIV in 1984 and the other (Jay) in 2019 www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-birmingham-55887969

I really really wanted to love this. It’s set in a period I’m really interested in, I spent a lot of my youth in gay clubs in Vauxhall with gay friends, I’m the mother of sons (I know not essential to feel empathy, but I was prepared for my emotional Achilles heel to be prodded) and... meh.

I think I just find RTD’s dialogue style a bit annoying (I’ve never really loved anything he’s done) and I always feel like I can see the cogs turning. I agree that Jill’s character needed something (just a couple of little scenes) to give her some depth. I could understand if he wanted to centre the boys but he gave her so much screen time and no hinterland whatsoever.

Maybe instead of ‘The Boys’ it should have been called ‘The Mummies’. That seemed to be the heart of it. Good mummies (selfless, uncomplaining, unknowable); surrogate mummies (see above); bad mummies (narcissistic, cold, unknowable). Maybe nannies too, what with Stephen Fry’s character and his Maggie obsession.

Mind you, Ash felt a bit crowbarred in too. Maybe it was too much to try and squeeze into 5 eps.

Oh I wasn't implying that Colin wasn't deserving of Aids if it came over like that then apologies

My summary: well-acted, great soundtrack, great 80's London vibe.

Did we actually get to hear It's a Sin even? I recall hearing it when Ritchie put it on the jukebox but not the whole song.

The rest? Watchable, but it didn't grab me in the way it seems to have grabbed many others.

@ageingdisgracefully we got to her the opening few bars of It's a Sin but it cut off before the vocal started.

@ageingdisgracefully

My summary: well-acted, great soundtrack, great 80's London vibe.

Did we actually get to hear It's a Sin even? I recall hearing it when Ritchie put it on the jukebox but not the whole song.

The rest? Watchable, but it didn't grab me in the way it seems to have grabbed many others.

The edit was complete before the single was recorded.

Don't know whether I just missed it, but what surprised me was that there was a specific scene that was November '91 (when ritchies mum was trying to persuade him to go home for Xmas), and yet there was no mention of a pretty relevant event that was in that exact month - the death of FM. Seemed weird to me that they thought about it and chose to put that scene in that exact month, and then that was it - no reference to FM at all. (i was imagining ritchies dad watching it on the news while his mum was on the phone...)

Maybe it was there, but ended up on the cutting room floor?

@PleaseGodLetItEnd

I really really wanted to love this. It’s set in a period I’m really interested in, I spent a lot of my youth in gay clubs in Vauxhall with gay friends, I’m the mother of sons (I know not essential to feel empathy, but I was prepared for my emotional Achilles heel to be prodded) and... meh.

I think I just find RTD’s dialogue style a bit annoying (I’ve never really loved anything he’s done) and I always feel like I can see the cogs turning. I agree that Jill’s character needed something (just a couple of little scenes) to give her some depth. I could understand if he wanted to centre the boys but he gave her so much screen time and no hinterland whatsoever.

Maybe instead of ‘The Boys’ it should have been called ‘The Mummies’. That seemed to be the heart of it. Good mummies (selfless, uncomplaining, unknowable); surrogate mummies (see above); bad mummies (narcissistic, cold, unknowable). Maybe nannies too, what with Stephen Fry’s character and his Maggie obsession.

Mind you, Ash felt a bit crowbarred in too. Maybe it was too much to try and squeeze into 5 eps.

I'm similar to you. I'm watching this and liking it so far but I actually preferred Cucumber to this series. I only watched a few episodes of Queer As Folk so can't really comment on that.

There's similar dialogue in this series too but I'm finding, on the whole, the main characters themselves, don't have much depth, aside from sex, bars, family and friends and a brief look at their work/hobbies etc.

Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Did we actually get to hear It's a Sin even? I recall hearing it when Ritchie put it on the jukebox but not the whole song.

The edit was complete before the single was recorded.

It's A Sin was recorded & released in 1987? Or do you mean a specific version of the song?

@iklboo

Did we actually get to hear It's a Sin even? I recall hearing it when Ritchie put it on the jukebox but not the whole song.

The edit was complete before the single was recorded.

It's A Sin was recorded & released in 1987? Or do you mean a specific version of the song?

Sorry, I assumed @ageingdisgracefully was referncing the Years and Years cover.

@Labobo there are some funny scenes involving Roscoe and the Tory MP in ep 4

@SimonJT - don't do that to an old woman!

In a "funny how times change" anecdote, we watched IaS on the recommendation of my parents.

Who were homophobic enough when I was growing up that I forced myself to be straight as far as anyone knew until well into my thirties.

Yes, I meant the Pet Shop Boys' version of It's a Sin, released in 1987. I didn't know there WAS another version.