It's a Sin, 9 pm Channel 4, 22nd Jan CONTAINS SPOILERS **titled edited by MNHQ**

[notawittyname1954]

I keep seeing trailers for this. Anyone else looking forward to it?

I didn't think he had after the actual diagnosis but did when he suspected he might have it. I suppose it's open to interpretation. I agree it was wrong though.

I'm pleased I'm not the only one @Forcedoutoflurking! I was beginnning to think I must have been blinkered and ignorant! I think by the mid-90s most guys on the scene had lived around HIV/AIDS for years and unless there was specific personal reason, it just wasn't really focused on or talked about in the same way as ten years previously.
I'll ask friends next time I chat on FB! It's interesting you had the same experience.

@CaptainMyCaptain, that was 1988 i think. Its 1991 in the final episode so he did probably continue to engage in sex until he was too ill. Maybe not deliberately murderous, more in denial perhaps? He turns Ash away though, in episode 3 i think as he obviously suspects he has the virus.

The doctor confirmed his diagnosis had passed the threshold into Aids so he had likely been HIV positive for a while, I think?

I'm intrigued as to why Colin never got any action, given that by the time he moved into the PP, he had already been having sex with Football Shirt? Or was it part of the plot to keep him seemingly innocent and naive so that we wouldn't suspect his downfall?

OK, I'll accept that about Ritchie.

I think Colin was coerced by Football Shirt, although he agreed I think it was under pressure. Just my impression. He was in love with Ritchie all the time and probably just wasn't into all the promiscuity. Not all gay men are.

@lotusbell I think it was totally that about Colin. It made it all the more shocking because we didn't really believe he'd had sex. So sad when he said he'd always been in love with Ritchie.
It was wrong of Ritchie to do that but he managed to hold off with Ash who he cared about. Do you think he just didn't want to admit and face it.

@CaptainMyCaptain

I didn't think he had after the actual diagnosis but did when he suspected he might have it. I suppose it's open to interpretation. I agree it was wrong though.

That was my interpretation. He had an inkling he'd caught if from Donald (?) but didn't know for certain. He didn't go for his test results the first time, but seemed to assume he had it as he was taking antibiotics and even went to someone's house to drink battery acid (or some other unspecified poison). I can understand him not wanting to know the result. It was a death sentence and there was nothing he could do about, but he could have been more careful in the meantime. I think people thinking like Ritchie wasn't uncommon. I read somewhere that George Michael wouldn't take an AIDS test either.

As for Colin, I don't think the sex with the football shirt guy was coercive. You saw him squeezing the guys butt during oral and shouting 'yes!' during sex, but football shirt wasn't 'out' and hadn't even really accepted he was gay. When he met Ritchie and the gang, he probably saw a group that were as out and proud as they could be in the 80's, who didn't care what people thought. It was probably quite freeing.

I got the impression that Ritchie was pretty certain he had it - he just didn't take the test because he couldn't face having it confirmed in black and white. But he knew.

Regarding his continuing to have sex with other men... I read an article where RTD mentions it. I think the idea was to almost de-demonise the behaviour - having trouble posting the link but he says "this was something very important and rare to feature ... those people who had HIV and who continued to sleep with people are always portrayed as villains - and they weren't. They were just boys. Just horny, stupid boys who convulsing believe what was happening to them."

Couldn't believe*

I must admit I was pretty conflicted about this plot point but it was interesting to hear this explanation

I thought Ritchie was in denial until he got his AIDS diagnosis. I suppose he knew he was HIV+ but didn’t want to admit it to himself so just carried in as if he wasn’t infected.

In fact, I'd say Colin maybe made the moves, if you watch the bit where his landlady is going out and he asks if they go out every Thursday and I think he says he'll stay in every Thursday. It's basically an invitation, so maybe he sees the signs in the son and is testing the water.
The fact he spots the son in that first episode and looks at him lustilly but then doesn't get any action in the following episodes is a red herring. I also think the trip to NY was, given that his friends warned him and at that point, it was only happening in America. I thought he'd go to NY and pop his cherry there, and potentially become infected from someone on the gay scene but the plot took him in a different direction. I did think he'd be seduced by his boss as well, was rather glad he didn't. Ironic that he was 'saved' from that by the newspaper articles which evidently put the old guy off.
As for Ritchie catching it from Donald, they don't have sex because Donald can't get the condom on then loses his erection. Whether they do later, before that scene where Ritchie spots the sores (not even sure if that's the same episode), isn't clear as ghosts him soon after. He doesn't seem to give him much thought even at the end, and doesn't disclose whether he ever mentioned his suspicions to his friends.

So many things unsaid and unseen, loves lots of room for discussion and debate!

Certainly by the time Ritchie is officially diagnosed, he seems to accept it and doesn't seem surprised.

However, he goes from "it's a death sentence" to "i'm gonna live" so is he putting on face in front of his friends, a bit of final bravado. You don't see his whole deterioration obviously, but he seems to feel no anger or bitterness about his diagnosis.

As for Ritchie catching it from Donald, they don't have sex because Donald can't get the condom on then loses his erection. Whether they do later, before that scene where Ritchie spots the sores (not even sure if that's the same episode)

I think they did have sex. They have a conversation about doing it without a condom because they're both clean. I thought they then go on to have sex and the morning after is when Ritchie spots the KS, which is why he's upset. He even says in the later scene when he's hospital that's where he thought he got it from.

I guess that's just my interpretation though. I probably need to watch it again.

That's enlightening to see what the writer said about wanting to de-demonise the behaviour of those who continued to have sex after they were HIV positive. No murderous intentions for most I'm sure, just young, horny and in denial. So sad for them all.

It looks like it's the first big thing Callum Scott Howells (Colin) has done. He was magnificent.

So many things unsaid and unseen, loves lots of room for discussion and debate!. Thats what makes it such an excellent drama. There have been at least 3 threads on MN.

@AndreaMarteau, yes good point. Had forgotten that conversation. Time for a rewatch!

@iklboo

It looks like it's the first big thing Callum Scott Howells (Colin) has done. He was magnificent.

I agree, what a performance, just amazing, he made the character so real.

Did the virus really give men big, obvious, brown sores on their skin? Like an HIV stamp almost?
I got the impression that Donald gave the virus to Richie? Or did I misinterprete that to Richie seeing the sores and feel guilt because he'd obviously transmit the virus to Donald?

@AndreaMarteau

As for Ritchie catching it from Donald, they don't have sex because Donald can't get the condom on then loses his erection. Whether they do later, before that scene where Ritchie spots the sores (not even sure if that's the same episode)

I think they did have sex. They have a conversation about doing it without a condom because they're both clean. I thought they then go on to have sex and the morning after is when Ritchie spots the KS, which is why he's upset. He even says in the later scene when he's hospital that's where he thought he got it from.

I guess that's just my interpretation though. I probably need to watch it again.

This was my interpretation too

@CherryCherries

Just read this:

Kaposi's sarcoma is mostly seen in people with an advanced HIV infection. It can also affect people who have a weakened immune system for another reason, such as after having an organ transplant.

@CherryCherries

Did the virus really give men big, obvious, brown sores on their skin? Like an HIV stamp almost? I got the impression that Donald gave the virus to Richie? Or did I misinterprete that to Richie seeing the sores and feel guilt because he'd obviously transmit the virus to Donald?

As far as I could tell, they'd only just had sex the night before when Ritchie spotted the KS. So maybe Donald had had it for a while. Donald then 'goes home' presumably to die as per the conversation with the agent.

I think Ritchie was upset after shagging Donald because he realises that Donald has probably infected him. He totally avoids him from then on, possibly because he doesn't want to face the fact that he's in all likelihood been exposed to HIV. Kind of pretending it never happened sort of thing (again, this is my interpretation).

[quote notawittyname1954]@CherryCherries

Just read this:

Kaposi's sarcoma is mostly seen in people with an advanced HIV infection. It can also affect people who have a weakened immune system for another reason, such as after having an organ transplant.[/quote]
Given that, it's almost odd that Donald told Ritchie he was clean. Do we think Donald really didn't know or was he was lying in the heat of the moment?

The mark was in a place he couldn't easily see himself. Maybe he didn't know. I don't know how ill he would feel by the time it got to that stage though.

I think Donald probably did think he was 'clean', and this echoes the 'it won't happen to me' mentality. Many young people think they are immortal and it's just scare tactics etc. Perhaps a bit of denial too.