You're not splitting up my family, on channel 4

[Pinkchampagne]

Anyone else watching this?

SS only spilt the boys up for about 5 days - after a period when mark had left the home anyway...and said he would like to stay in the foster home for a few days, even when his dad rang up. SS also took him to visit Jason during that time.

It does look as if it would have been better had they been permanently fostered with a stable capable family...it must have been terrible to lose Aunty pauline - and in the two years they were there, i wonder how long she was fit and well fro? The Uncle must have been over-burdened and distracted, too. I thought it ironic that the Uncle continued to do his best (even though he acknowledged it wasn't v good) with a houseful of boys after his wife died, whilst tom couldn't even try.

It must all be very very humiliating for Tom, still today sitting in the working men's club.

I think that's why he drinks all day and night no?

I saw this with dh and we were both shocked at the content. Dh noticed that the only time Tom smiled or even showed any outward emotion was when he was talking about his late wife. He obviously has the capacity for love and a deep love at that. She was his rock and when she died he was unable to continue life without her. He may have missed her much more because of the awful mother he had had himself and once his wife was gone the mother (gm) moved back in and took over in her old controlling ways. I too cannot understand why the sw could not see how the gm was emotionally abusing the children. Having had experience of this myself it isn't sufficient to say that any adult is better than none. These boys were openly saying she was horrible and for goodness sake, how much more evidence do you/would you have needed than the filmed rantings of the abuser herself?

I don?t have the answers but I did feel that placing the boys with their Auntie was a mistake. She had children of her own (4 boys?) and terminal cancer -how was that ever going to work? Maybe a complete fresh start would have been better. My neighbours? wife died earlier this year and has since been marvellous but he has had the financial capability to provide a nanny for his children to provide the 'role' of a mother -but certainly not as a replacement of their mother. This has given them stability, routine and above all boundaries with consequences all of which these poor boys did not.

My husband was truly appalled at the thought that these two ?men? were, in effect, ?written off? at 22, when his life was only just beginning?

Honoria I'm sorry to hear you have given up being a social worker, it must have been a horrible decision to have to make.

But the reason I quoted the Every Child Matters thing is that I believe that things are changing a little in that children will be (should be) listened to.

Look at the picture we had. Grandma was controlling and abusive. Dad was broken, but emotionally damaged because of grandma. He found love in the boys' Mum who died. So within this family the only people that can actually feel any love are the children. They knew what was the best thing for them in their hearts because they could still feel their emotions. I think nowadays social workers would have been forced to listen to the children a and maybe base their decisions on what they said they needed.

I would like to think that nowadays the SWs would have a)got rid of grandma, b)told Dad to give up drinking or else c)put the boys in foster care as a last resort but kept them together.

I can see that putting them with Auntie Pauline was a last ditch attempt to rescue the children from delinquency but I really do think that if they had supported the Dad there would have been a chance. The most touching thing was seeing Jason with his step-son, but I did wonder how they would be if the pressure was on.

Thanks MrsM. I guess I'm cynical, but I STILL think that listening to the children for 100 years would not have changed the situation in the home. The Gran would not have left, the dad would not have made her, even with all the support in the world, the dad would not have changed; he said himself that he saw SW's and EWO's and all the support offered, as like 'living in a goldfish bowl' and he wished they'd go away, basically. You cannot support people and effect change unless they want that support, and they only want it if they love their kids and want the situation to get better for them!

I AM cynical I know but the trouble is that SS are involved mainly with the people where change is not wanted due to the high level of needs in the parents and the endless cycle of abuse that goes on in some families.

(oh dear it is a good job I'm out of it, isn't it )

I watched this and found it sad. I know the father needed help but i dont think the children should have been taken away. I grew up in a rough area compared to some people on mn and had friends with social workers and have seen a lot of things in my time. And going by this programme half my friends shoould have been put in care maybe even myself. I did have some friends who went through the care system so i know how it can turn out.

I meant to say friends who had social workers.

I did feel a certain amount of sympathy for him over the 'goldfish bowl' thing though - because from his pov everyone was coming in (and quite a lot of them, all of a sudden) to address problems and things that were 'his fault' - ss re hitting the boys, school welfare worker with things the boys had done, etc, whereas earlier on, if he had had counselling and some form of family therapy / suport following the death of the Mum, there would have been support without the accusation.

Agree with that, Blu. And that's the whole problem with SS in a nutshell; no-one is funding that initial support....there's only enough in the pot to deal with the results of not being supported when it counts!

This thread is such a good reminder of why social work is a mug's game.

2mums, I sensed all along that the boys wanted to stay with Dad, and that Dad wanted them but he was so broken and needed a lot of fixing. I do believe that an old dog CAN learn new tricks and if they'd only got gran out of the house things could have been better.

Honoria, it is another case where early intervention could have prevented big problems and I see now that ss are just brought in at the end to do the mopping up. I'm a Homestart volunteer and see allsorts of stuff but we get in there before SS need to take serious action and it's a very satisfying place to be as a worker. I'm also only there with the agreement of the family.