Has anyone watched Unorthodox on Netflix?

[ihatethecold]

I loved it. Really fascinating and interesting to see inside the traditions and customs of Hasidic Jews.
It sent me down a rabbit hole googling questions afterwards.
The men’s hats are incredible.

I'm glad I have seen this thread. I have seen Orthodox when looking through Netflix, but wasn't sure whether to watch it or not. Now I have seen this I will watch it.

Hi @Bells3202.

Have you seen “Unorthodox”? I ask because the Williamsburg eruv is crucial to the plot - it is broken on the day Esty wants to leave, which is the Sabbath, and so she can’t carry her bag outside. The other women say that she is at an advantage because she doesn’t ha e a pram to push- they are all stuck inside until it is fixed.

I am sorry, the hair thing still doesn’t make sense to me. How are you keeping your natural beauty for your husband if you make yourself ugly by shaving your head? (Which you do so it is more comfortable to wear a wig that allows you to look attractive to the outside world).

Yes I've seen it. Sorry I have double checked and Williamsburg does have an eruv. I know the Hasidic communities in the UK don't believe in them though so I think that part is just dramatized.

They also don't focus a lot on physical beauty, your natural beauty isn't about having hair and it's not about beauty at all. it's about modesty. Some people shave their hair and others don't but particularly in the summer when it's hot it's probably a lot better and easier if you cover your hair. Maybe I am explaining it badly.

Consider your natural hair being like your boobs. You cover them up to keep modest, but you may wear a push up bra or tight top to make them look nicer. however your physical boobs you keep private for yourself and your partner (however long or short term that may be). the idea of covering up isn't to make your boobs less attractive it's to keep a part of yourself private. same with the hair, it's not about making it ugly (some people look gorgeous with short hair) it's about keeping that part of you private for you and your husband. privacy and modesty is the aim not beauty.

But taking the boobs analogy further, I don’t go around at home naked all the time and I am not sure my husband would appreciate me having them out unless we were in a sexy mood-they definitely look better under clothes . Do Hasidic women genuinely feel beautiful and happy to see themselves in the mirror going about their daily business at home with shaved heads?

I honestly don't know whether they feel beautiful I thjnk they feel being spiritual is more important. As said I'm not hasidic and I don't cover my hair. This was the answer I was given by some who was. Your husband wouldn't be happy if you want around with your boobs out all the time - mine would be thrilled!

Aardvaark not all Jewish women in communities where they wear wigs shave their heads. Different communities have different traditions. In the wig video they meet a young woman just before they go into the store who has bought a wig as she is preparing for marriage and she explains what she she is looking for. She talks about the fact that she gathers her hair into a ponytail and puts the wig on. She cuts her hair shorts (perhaps to her shoulders) so the pony bump is not noticable under the wig.

There has been debate among Rabbis about whether it is true to modesty to have a wig that is more beautiful than your natural hair, there are many different points of view. Some communities seem to choose wigs that are more obvious as if to make sure others know it is a covering.

Also although most Orthodox women around the world cover their hair, they don't all wear wigs. Many wear scarves and snoods that are very similar to Muslim women, except Muslim women are more likely to cover their neck. In the matchmaking series I posted from Israel, the potential wives discuss how they would cover their hair once married. The men also have strong opinions about what they prefer. Then the Yarmulke the men wear is also discussed at length by matchmakers. Whether he wears a black velvet Yarmulke, black leather or white crocheted all signals which community and tradition he belongs to.

A short explanation

Just finished the last episode of Shtisel.

Really recommend it.

Heard there were issues in filming Series 3 - hope they manage to overcome them as need to know what happens next!

As the orthodox communities that cover their hair with wigs seem to have come from Europe, I wonder if it has to do with that fact that in the past they didn't want to draw attention to themselves. If you were from a society where you have a been a persecuted misunderstood minority and most of the women just wear their hair natural with perhaps a hat, wearing a wig prevents an orthodox woman being identified as Jewish. While for Jewish communities living alongside other people where the women also cover their hair a scarf doesn't make you stand out.

Thank you @Bells3032 and @womanlywiles. I did realise that they don’t all shave their heads, my question was about those who do. In Deborah Feldman’s book she talks about when her Grandfather came home one day and ordered her Grandma to shave hers. I’ve attached the screenshots of that part. It was not her choice, and the comfort was only a collateral benefit.

For some reason the two pages came out back to front there.

I think your theory is very interesting re disguising Jewishness @Womanlywiles, though it’s suggested that a lot of the communities who fled got more strict about head covering after they left Europe, hence Bubby’s reference to her own mother not doing it.

I am afraid I am not a foremost authority on haradi communities - I can speak from a more modern orthodox perspective but it is a very different world. There may also be differences within the sects of what they do as tradition rather than the law - these differ all over the place - some wear wigs, some cover their hair in a snood, some wear hats, some shave and some don't. it's hard to be able to speak for what is a very wide variety of sects (esp when you consider the very small number of jews) something I think the pages you have attached reflect - some rabbis say don't, some say do. it's just whatever they want people to do to conform I guess.

Have you watched 'One of Us' on Netflix? It's a documentary on three people trying to leave the Hasidic Jewish community on New York, it's heart breaking.

I think @Womanlywiles theory is interesting but I find the concept of wearing a wig is far more common amongst younger jews. The older generations just covered their hair with a headscarf - think it's actually the total opposite - in the modern age women don't want to stand out as much and wearing a wig isn't as noticeable as a scarf esp when it is well made.

I enjoyed it, very interesting. Would have loved to read Esty's "my MIL" post on MN.

But I couldn't get past the unreal situation in Berlin. She meets a guy in a coffee shop, becomes part of a friendship group and gets a place in music school with very little trouble. How did she afford to live?

I don’t think she did get the place @MintyMabel. They didn’t say one way or another. I thought she was going to go and live with her Mum.

I don’t think she did get the place @MintyMabel. They didn’t say one way or another. I thought she was going to go and live with her Mum

But even the situation where she was able to apply. Totally unreal.

Mintymabel yeah that's where it fell down for me too. I did enjoy it and thought the whole story very interesting. By adding that story line it became too much like a fairy tale. It also felt quite contrived where she is constantly meeting a cross section of gay, lesbian, muslim, african etc. Germans. Yes of course Berlin is diverse, but you know what I mean, it felt like the director was people-bombing her character to say "we all get along without a hint of difficulty" unlike your inhuman sect. It was a bit heavy handed. It would probably have been much more realistic and interesting to have her move into an average apartment and just go to a normal local college or something. Her story of transition was fascinating in itself, no need to over egg the pudding. I guess the conceit was that by having a music college it would have a range of people who were chosen on their ability. In my own experience, some German parents and teachers found my American children quite exotic and got very worried that they wouldn't be able to adjust. So the "we embrace the world" was a bit of an eye-roller. Shtisel is much more realistic in its character development, although the actress who plays Esty is excellent and she is in both.

Just started on the first episode! Place marking I will be back :)

Shtisel starts slow, but builds as you get to know a lot of characters until it’s addictive.

I think being on orthodox jew must be a hard life.So much pressure and strict rules.
And having to wear a wig all the time when you go out must be so annoying.

I loved shtisel by the way!

I noticed a planning application for an eruv in Stockport near Manchester in February this year, the nnewspaper said others were already in place in North Manchester and Salford and had been for 6 years.

I also found the bit about meeting the music friends and applying for the music schools for musical geniuses a bit far fetched. She meets Robert in a cafe, he is a musician, has musician friends - what a coincidence, she is into music too! I liked the friendship group, especially the straight talking girl. Would've been nice to have had a bit more on the individual characters.
Found it odd that no one questions why she is there or her story until a bit later on.
Found it odd that they took her to a lake when its obviously she is not properly attired for swimming! And why do they seem to provoke her - Robert telling her about the Nazis across the lake and then the teacher giving her a ham sandwich and not even being apologetic when she makes it clear she can't eat pork?
For me, it would've been nice to have had a bit more of a build up and explanation of why she wanted to escape, why she didn't feel she fitted in - was it just because of her mum and drunken father? There were hints that she always felt 'different'.

@Womanlywiles, thanks for the reminder,I loved watching that when it was on! Time for a rewatch.