The Trial of Christine Keeler

[unique1986]

BBC drama starts 29th December 9pm

Yeah I know I'm early with this thread, but I can't wait.
I know nothing about this other than the brief articles I've read but it just looks like my kind of drama.

It seems like Stephen Ward killed himself because he couldn't face thought of going to prison.
It's always annoys me when somebody kill themselves before a trial or before serving a life sentence it is a cowards way out whether you look at it like that or not.
Also if he wasn't a creepy kind of person he probably wouldn't have killed himself.
I read an article that a 15-year old boy that was in charge of getting his taxis at the end of the the trials also got him the the drugs to kill himself.

When does agency kick in?

If we're talking 'agency' then surely the very grown man Stephen Ward had the 'agency' not to ingratiate himself with powerful men by making young women available to them? He was an intelligent man and knowing the class system - which was even more powerful then that it is now - he must have been well aware that his powerful upper class 'friends' wouldn't hestitate to cast him aside if the need arose.

But Stephen Ward had 'agency' and actively chose to live and die this way. So applying your own standards, he was certainly no victim.

Unique, the boy was Stephen Pound, long Time West London MP. Nothing dubious about this, he simply took the prescription to chemist and took the
medicine to Ward as requested.

Just to echo what has already been said. This was not the "swinging" sixties. What this was about is the double standard of those with power, ie class and politics could behave as they liked. If there was any chance that somehow the papers might use it against them eg Profumo was a target for politics reasons, those lower down the food chain were the ones who paid the price. (Although a lot of people now refer to the last politican who did the "honourable"!! thing in retiring and staying quiet and doing good works.)

Have realise I am only a few years younger than CK and MRD. And can remember at the time my parents who weren't that conformist, seemed to accept that Astor and the others could all just absent themselves. I can remember being really puzzled by Ward's suicide and thinking this was wrong. And wonder if somehow through hearing it being discussed that a lot of people thought the case against him was got up. But from what was shown last night it seems that the last minute intervention of CK being shown to be a liar somehow carried more weight.

I wonder if he though even if he got off he would never have the status he had before, and all these upper crusts he somehow thought he was equal with had just dumped him.

And I am not in anyway saying it is right but a lot of men, irrespective of class thought 16 year old girls should be available to them.

And for many young girls were led to believe that that was their role.

I can remember what would have been about 6/7 years later than this being taken by friends who thought it was hilarious, to some sort of club that was meant to be prestigious. But it was really sleazy. A lot of middle aged men in suits (expensive) being served drinks etc., by very young women in the then "acceptable" mini skirt who were basically felt up the whole time. I was quite prim and from the country and was genuinely shocked but my London friends who were verging on the hippie alternative side saw it as an example of establishment hypocrasy, but didn't seem that concerned by the women who were having to earn their living in that environment.

And as we now, people wanting to ingratiate themselves with people with status effectively act if not as a pimp but a procurer of young girls. Look at the recent stories of US music stars.

Women's bodies as a commodity men bargain with happens in the upper class and in the run down areas of Bradford. The common factor is the men irrespective of race, class or religion.

I thought this a better episode but still find it strange that there is so little interaction between CK and MRD. It is as though prior to the period being shown they reached a common understanding of what they could expect in life, and propped each other up to do it. But we haven't been shown what that is.

Another example of abuse was the police threatening to take that young womans child and younger sister into care unless she did what they wanted "they said it would never get to court" Lets not forget their hypocrisy and role in this.

Changing tack slightly, does anyone here feel that ANYONE in the series has been portrayed sympathetically? I think this is one reason why I've struggled a bit with it-I don't expect to see saints in action (!) but to be really gripped by a TV drama/novel/whatever, I need to feel I'm rooting for someone.

One of the many brilliant things about A Very English Scandal (the Jeremy Thorpe drama shown in 2018) was how it managed to show different sides of people. Thorpe could be charming and fun to be with but was also increasingly obsessed with getting someone murdered. . .and could also be sympathized with when his first wife was killed in the car crash. Norman Scott was vulnerable in some ways and could also be infuriating. And so on. I have found the characters in The Trial of CK rather 2-dimensional. (Don't think it's the fault of the actors, I think it's more to do with the screenplay.)

Thoughts?

I agree, Norfolk, the Thorpe drama was excellent and I'm finding this a bit lacklustre by comparison. I suppose that the Thorpe details do remain shocking and barely believable whereas, given the behaviour of today's political class, the Keeler affair would barely raise an eyebrow today. Nobody would apologise, nobody would resign and Stephen Ward wouldn't have reason to kill himself over an effective non event. The production doesn't convey the sense of shock that the public felt at the revelations about the great and good, nor the underlying, accompanying glee that many felt at 'them' getting their just desserts but tempered by many people realising that the whole thing was an establishment stitch up. Even my mother, raised by Victorian parents and not given to approving promiscuity, said that Ward had been needlessly hounded to the point of no return. I was watching something else set in the same era today and remembering how sooty and dirty London was then, how there were always random dogs and children playing in the streets and generally more people, fewer cars, Ladbroke Grove in particular. It's all too clean!

The Thorpe drama was also excellent in that it really evoked a sense of time and place, of how 'Swinging London', despite all the supposed glamour, was actually quite a seedy and tawdry place in many ways. This production, despite having twice as many episodes, hasn't managed that at all. And yes, all the characters are very one-note and as I said above, Christine's single facial expression is getting boring. I agree that this is likely down to the script and the direction rather than the actors themselves.

Also, the whole thing is a bit grim. There are no hints of glamour, or friendship or anything to relieve the gloom. The film 'Scandal' managed to do that in under two hours.

It seems that Stephen Ward killed himself because he couldn't face going to prison

I don't think it was the thought of prison that drove him to suicide, I think it was the fact that none of his aristocratic friends would vouch for his good character. They all dissociated themselves from him and I think that was devastating for him.

I agree with you, constantinople. I think it was because his friends abandoned him. And of course, given what he did for a living, that was also disastrous for his work prospects. Unique, I really can't accept that "if he wasn't a creepy kind of person, he probably wouldn't have killed himself." All sorts of people kill themselves when life becomes unbearable. I have known 4 people well who have killed themselves (at different stages of my life) and they all simply found themselves in situations that they found intolerable and unresolvable.

Perhaps we were spoiled a bit by the Thorpe drama, there were just so many good things about it! Of course, the whole scenario had elements of farce about it (no less serious for the man targetted,obvs) which the Profumo scandal lacked. I loved the tragi-comic dialogue in the Thorpe piece (Scott's obsession with the National Insurance card, etc.) This felt true to life. Hugh Grant was a revelation (I'd had my doubts, feeling that his persona would be just too aimiable bumbler to convey Thorpe's dark side).

Imo, The Trials of CK doesn't adequately convey the amount of Cold War tension that existed in 1963 (and without understanding that, how can we really understand why this was such a scandal?). Something I HAVE noticed is how virtually everybody smoked! It shows the pervading racism of the time much more than Scandal did. I agree, IcedPurple, there is no glamour, no humour, not really any friendship even between CK and MRD. I'm just left with a feeling that everybody is grim, depressing, out-for-themselves, and rather grubby. And I think it probably tries too hard to point out the amorality of a lot of the press, for example (hardly a surprise they would love this succession of revelations and events!).
Rather too many Important Men Having Important Meetings here, I think. (We needed to see SOME of this.) But I think perhaps 3 episodes, 1 hour each, would have been plenty.

Have to say although I thought the Thorpe drama was very entertaining I think it overegged the camp glamour. It was a depressing time. It was exactly the same as CK. Prominent men thinking they were entitled to behave well. It was disgusting. The share out of touch arrogance of someone like Thorpe not realising the horrendous position it puts someone in not to have their NI cards. Leaving someone to survive on the edge with no access to the safety net of benefits etc..

Pink washing what in fact was almost enforced prostitution and the threat of actual violence is not entertaining.

Also the supposed swinging 60s was actually very much a media projection. The vast majority of people lived lives totally unaffected by it.

I do agree that the way the CK drama with its back and forward doesn't give you the chance to get some idea of the characters. I posted upthread that we having had any conversation between CK and MRD as to what made them have this sort of pact that this was a way of surviving.

Also this newspaper article (which sort of implies this drama saying it is based on CK memories are probably selected ones) makes it look as thoughs CK and Norman Scott had more in common. More like trafficking than prostitution.

Sex with John Profumo was more like rape, says Christine Keeler in lost tape www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-with-john-profumo-was-more-like-rape-says-christine-keeler-in-lost-tape-23svvsxw7

Stumbledin, I got the impression that "He needs to sort out my National Insurance card" line was Scott's way of keeping his contact with Thorpe going rather than a genuine problem. After all, when has someone's EMPLOYER ever been responsible for the issuing and/or renewal of the card? Everyone in Britain is registered centrally for NI.

I agree that Thorpe has that in-built arrogance that so often comes with someone with his level of privilege. It' also shown when he goes to see the Home Secretary at the exclusive club, to have a little chat about how the whole thing can be resolved. Then, later, his defence lawyer just happens to have attended the same Oxford college! The drama was a very good portrayal of how privilege works in Britain. Let's face it, if a less-privileged man had been in the dock for this, he likely would not have been acquitted. . . .and he certainly wouldn't have had a judge who gave such a biased summing-up that the jury were almost BOUND to acquit!

Yes, the Swinging Sixties as a concept applied largely to Carnaby Street, to trendy and highly successful people in show business, fashion, etc. The media latches onto these concepts and generalizes massively.

Finally finished watching it on catch-up. I thought it was well acted, though Cookson’s voice grated after a while. I thought James Norton was well cast - even if he was far younger than Ward was.

Made me realise how times have changed. Poor Stephen Ward. The authorities were clearly out to get him.

Ive just caught up with this, I've really enjoyed it. I wasn't alive at the time, but obviously knew a little of the scandal.
God what a shitty time to be a woman. The hypocrisy and corruption.
Im actually feeling a little sorry for ward, i think he probably was gay and just liked the company of pretty young girls. It also gained him influence, power and "friends".

There are six pages of articles in the Radio Times.

An interview with Tom Mangold (a journalist who knew Ward) There is a documentary at 10pm Sunday on BBC 2 Keeler Profumo Ward and Me.

Interviews with James Norton and Sophie Cookson.

And quotes from Christine Keeler as @stumbledin has posted. Including the police pressure on her.

@theconstantinoplegardener, I think you're right, once those social doors closed they wouldn't open again. The suicide of Dominick Elwes after the Lord Lucan murder is an example that reminded me of Ward. He was subject to those doors closing and hounded by members of the circle that believed he'd betrayed the vanished murderer Lucan. All whitewashed now.

I agree that for Ward a future without links to people in power would not have been one her wanted. And it must have been humiliating to be so obvious snubbed by people he thought he was on equal (well nearly) terms.

But I also wonder if the felt the betrayal by CK. There was that scene of her running after the taxi (which none of the press pack noticed) as if she was admiting she had dumped him in it. But the series is written to present her as a niave young woman not full aware of what was going on and the consequences of her actions.

But just going back to the trial, if the portrayal of the evidence by the woman who was coerced by the police, was shown in the court to ben invented by them, there wasn't any evidence against him. Was there?

CK being found to have lied in another court case shouldn't have made that much difference.

I don't believe there was any evidence against Ward, other than that concocted by the police/security service. In those days, the police were automatically believed by the court and juries, often in very dubious circumstances. There's also a race element here. CK would have been considered by many to be a prostitute simply because of her known association and relationships with Black men. She 'must' have been paid for this and Ward, by the same distorted logic 'must' have been her pimp. This kind of thinking would have contributed to the feeling that something criminal 'must' have happened. So cooking up evidence where there was none was common. There were many miscarriages of justice.

You kind of expect the final episode to be exciting or interesting but I'm bored stiff!

I didn't expect it to be exciting at all.
I see an astonishingly beautiful young woman from.a horribly abusive background used terribly by people. She had neither the wit nor wisdom to protect herself and nobody did it for her. Little more than a child.

I feel Mandy was escaping boredom with a loving family behind her. Christine tried to escape from an already awful life with no back up.

I'm finding this last episode upsetting tbh

Probably the best episode of the lot, but really dragged quite a bit. As I've said before, this should have been a 3 or 4 parter at most. The 'men have all the power' conversation between Profumo and his wife seemed so contrived and 'on the nose' to me. And the sentimentalisation of Stephen Ward, whose activities would today be seen as a form of grooming, made me feel a bit queasy.

Goawayquickly I totally agree that this final episode is upsetting. A beautiful young woman who was used and sexually abused by many men, including her stepfather. Such a tragedy.

Agree, goaway, that was very sad. She had a horrible life, poor woman and never really got to grips with life.

Can I just say Sophie Cookson is stunning.

Yes, Sophie Cookson is stunning and a great actress but the real christine was by all accounts a true beauty and had nobody, not one person in her corner.

Apart from Stephen, who from everything I've ever read did appear to care for her, he may have been a man of questionable character but there appears to have been a true friendship. She said as a much older woman she'd have ended up with him living as friends. Who knows? But he was the closest thing she had to family for a while is obvious.