Leadership debate

[rainywinterday]

Is there a thread already?

Me and dh are trying to work out why JC has got droopy eyes.....ptosis? Bell's palsy? Stroke?.....

I hate the stupid 'fun' questions. They just use them for point scoring.

Exactly @ Jux It's not his opinion that matters, it's the people's opinion that matters.

Corbyn has come across far better than I expected him to. He's not naturally statesmanlike, but has beaten Johnson hands down tonight.

The PA question was a bit

Corbyn was more polite about PA than I thought he'd be! I wish one of them had openly criticised him.

How would the 4 day week work in the NHS? There aren't enough staff to do the work with everyone working more than full time as it is. Posts stay unrecruited to for months, even years. So there would be noone to pick up the slack of the fifth day. Even if they could recruit, the additional salary and on costs would put the NHS into an even more perilous state than it's in now in (and that's saying something)

TBH I think people were laughing at the policy because it is, well, laughable.

I was watching the Trump Impeachment stuff this afternoon; I know it's a different type of thing, but the order and discipline involved wou not go amiss here. Exact timings for a start....

Initial studies show that a 4 day week can have a positive impact, so to say it's laughable is laughable!

The thing I'd like to know about the 4 day week is how will that affect schools? If the teachers are only working 4 days, do they have a second set of teachers to cover day 5, lengthen the school day or shorten the holidays? The only other option would be to increase the school leaving age as the kids won't learn any faster!

The 4 day week couldn’t work for years, it’s a long term aspiration. But with better funded training of nurses, leading to more recruitment, less hours would lead to lower stress levels, and better retention of trained staff. I love the idea personally and would love a 4 day working week

RaymondStopThat, maybe improved funding of the NHS would increase recruitment? Further recruitment would then improve the conditions and hours and lower stress and then more recruitment follows and then you get a 4 day week, with even more recruitment. Otherwise I dunno! I think improving conditions does lead to better recruitment.

X post

Great minds

Corbyn has come across far better than I expected him to. He's not naturally statesmanlike, but has beaten Johnson hands down tonight

Really? I hope you're right but I thought the opposite. I thought Johnson won it hands down. Because he has a stance to base his Brexit answers on and Brexit is at the heart of everything in this election. I hate his stance but it's a definite one. Corbyn was so non committal. Johnson might have spouted lies but they were definite ones and people will believe them.

I really like a lot of Corbyn's non Brexit policies. If I lived in a constituency where Labour had any hope I might vote for them (even though I'm a LibDem member). But Lib Dems have the clear Brexit position I'm looking for and, where I live, are the only hope against the Tories and the Brexit Deal.

Johnson could keep focused enough to answer a question, he just kept repeating the same answer for everything and yet managed to not answer a single question.

I don't like Corbyn but out the these 2 at least he answered the question asked and didn't talk over Johnson and the useless host.

@manicinsomniac we definitely saw different perspectives then. I though Corbyn was very clear on his Brexit plan.

*thought

According to BJ in the debate “The single biggest threat to our economy and our ability to fund the NHS is our failure to get Brexit done”

Nothing to do with Tory austerity and privatisation then

But the reality still is, however you look at it, you'd be paying NHS staff to work 20% fewer hours. Therefore it will cost 20% more plus on costs, which are huge in the NHS, to just get the staff hours we have now.

As for recruitment, maybe it would be a bit easier, but it isn't just the long NHS hours that affect recruitment and retention. It's unpopular specialties (I could advertise a consultant post and know that noone would apply in certain specialties), shift working, treatment of staff by patients eg A & E, the list is endless.

Plus the EWTD has already impacted team structures and continuity in medicine, a 4 day week would affect that even more. How long would a doctor's training have to be if you cut their hours by 20%? At least a year and probably more. It simply wouldn't work, and a populist policy which makes no sense plays right into slimy Boris' hands

How MUCH LONGER would a doctor's training... that should say

shalligo - I agree he had a plan but I don't think he had a stance. He won't say whether he thinks it's a good idea or a bad idea. I feel like I need to know what someone thinks about something so big in order to trust them. Not that knowing their stance automatically equals trust, of course - I am not saying I trust Johnson!

What do people think of Jo Swinson? I thought she seemed weak at first but is warming up very well.

@manicinsomniac I see what you mean. Corbyn is in a difficult position there, being a lifelong Eurosceptic. So, he is saying what the party's plan is rather than his personal view, which would differ slightly. I do think he now believes that staying in is better than the awful deals we've been offered, but 2 years ago, I think he wanted out.

Absolutely shalligo - I think Corbyn and Labour are in a very difficult position. There is such a large group of Labour remain voters and such a large group of Labour leave voters that they are forced to fence sit.

Johnson has it easy - 'Get Brexit Done' is making my teeth itch but it's easy to understand and very attractive to 52% of the 2016 active electorate. Swinson's 'Cancel Brexit' is equally easy to understand but Lib Dems are starting from such a minority position with so much mistrust hanging over them that they can't capitalise on it in the same way that the Tories can.

Jo Swinson seems ok- but lacks experience.

I wish Nicola Sturgeon was standing for the whole of the uk- I'd vote for her! She's the only one with any great deal of intelligence and pluck and also articulate and respectable and fit to represent her country on a world stage.

Bori, farage and Corbyn are an embarrassment to the UK!