richard dawkins - beyond reason channel 4

[Sheherazadethegoat]

i am loving it - i hate those parasitic mediums.

Who knows what goes on in a marriage in that situation?
It's one of those things where it's impossible to imagine how you'd behave

UQD, I also heard that, but not from a particularly authoritative source. JD did take a long time a-dying though and it wouldn't be unheard of for the spouse of a dying person to be seeking consolation.

That was the title of an episode of "The West Wing" too.

There was never a West Wing called "Stacks of Muffins".

resurrecting thread for tonight's episode!

Thank you for the reminder Kathy! I was dribbling in front of 'enders - the shame

"We should be open minded but not so open minded that our brain falls out."

'the first death from measles in 14 years.'

how many deaths from innoculations in the last 14 years i wonder?

statistics damned statistics.

Yeah I think picking on the measles death is a bit weak.
Deepak Chopra's misuse of quantum theory is a much more worthwhile target.

Deepak

thanks for reminder

ding ding.

round one to deepak methinks.

really didn't feel the dawkins won that one.

Nah, Dawkins deffo!

but then it's his programme so he ought to.

The discussion of the placebo effect of 'kind' attentive practitioners of alt medicine is very interesting.

People love ritual and ceremony, and we all love have someone take an active interest in our wellbeing. That is why my friends love having their tarot read - dd is wake bugger

Programme a bit disappointing again, I thought - the issues were deeper than you could shed any light on in an hour.

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That's interesting Pruni.

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Pruni - DH (who does understand quantum physics, if anyone does) thought Chopra was superficially (though only superficially, of course) quite plausible but probably would have been too canny to appear on the programme if he hadn't known he would come across that way.

I definitely thought he was rather slippery in the way he was sliding from claiming he was using quantum science as a metaphor when attacked to using it as more than that in his argument.

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I do think that dawkins position that subjective truth is not only second to 'objective' truth but, in fact, meaningless is immensely arrogant not to say plain stupid.

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It was a disappointing programme. I wish they had shown more of his interview with the doctor turn alternative practitioner who wrote the book "Punk Science". When she started saying that black holes in the body could be compared to those in space, DH and I fell about guffawing.

As for Chopra's assertion that scientists pinched the term quantum physics, well Max Plank won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918 and he also credited people like Boltzman and Kirchoff for laying the foundations in the 1800s.

Also, the woman from the Hay Clinic who said that Ayurverdic (sp?) was an ancient practice so that was justification for it to be considered credible, well, how can you argue with logic like that? It was interesting that when challenged about objective emperical data/evidence, she offered none. I'm not saying that these things do not work but if all the evidence who can offer is that it has been done for years, then you should not be surprised if you are not viewed as credible.

I would have liked to learn more about the treatment using magnetic coils - that looked fascinating.

Dawkin still irritates me though with his sneering, superior, dismissive swipes though.

He irritates me too. It's not a very different kind of arrogance from Deepak Chopra's. I've seen the first two programmes, and all he's done so far is set up a row of sitting ducks and shoot them down. Anyone can feel superior to tarot card readers, dowsers, and idiots like David Icke. You can demolish their logic in a few minutes. It would be much harder to engage with the major religions of history, where he would be pitting himself against minds at least as formidable as his own. Is he going to do that? We shall see.

Dawkins is in love with the Enlightenment, but seems to have no awareness of the price that has been paid for a purely materialistic view of life. The biggest crimes in history were all committed in the post-Enlightenment, the 20th century, in countries like Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Cambodia, where traditional religion was replaced by materialistic creeds. The problem is that getting rid of religion does not mean getting rid of irrationality or superstition. Belief in some kind of non-material or spiritual universe seems to be deeply encoded in the human psyche, and if it's suppressed it just re-emerges in a more poisonous form.

There are many scientists, especially nowadays, who are aware of the limitations of science as a way of explaining the universe. But I don't think Dawkins is one of them.