Years & Years

[unique1986]

Starts tonight 9pm
Family drama that flashes forward into the future.

When that missile was launched I thought it would be against Edith's lorry - I loved it that everything suddenly turned around.

I liked the message that, ultimately, totalitarian regimes have weak roots, and that spreading information is the weapon that can now bring them down.

Oh shit, yes - Florence was the Crimean War Well, there you go, show how much my kids were even listening and learning about British History

I didn't think the happy ending was realistic (and was also worried about that flu spreading) and the sci-fi bit was just a bit too sci-fi for my liking. It was about 15 years in total right (can't remember the starting date). Unrealistic for tech to have moved on that much that we could download memories and consciousness.

That said however, I loved every other part of the series. Ive been recommending it to everyone.

I thought it was brilliant viewing and Gran's speech was spot on, I turned to dh and said as such, we are all guilty.

I'm just rewatching it again to make sure I haven't missed anything, it's too powerful to not rewatch.

I found the final episode utterly compelling and terrifying and inspiring, right up until the point when it went a bit Dr Who at the end. It just seemed like too big a leap, too much of a shift in tone.

Yeah I thought it went a bit weird at the end TBH and I didn't believe that technology jump. Downloading was really really odd.

I also for some reason thought the series was meant to cover the next 30 years, rather than the next 15, so that was a bit confusing.

But I did like the speech, I found the whole thing thought provoking and it was really interesting.

I think I enjoyed it am not really sure I found it a bit too fantastical at times and like RTD's torchwood children of the earth.

Found gran's speech puritanical rather than inspiring but maybe that'sbecause it was a little too close to the truth

Stephens a great shot though

I didn't love the ending and the 'downloading' of Edith... stretch too far really-seemed too fantastical to me. (Albeit it was a nice hopeful way to end it and it was nice that that was special to RTD after the death of his husband).

The rest of it was very compelling however. I loved the Grans speech-it was spot on regarding they way we are all potentially sleepwalking into things at the moment.

I want proof that a child choking on picking cotton in India is paid more than 0.001 penny if we pay £15 or £150 for a tee shirt. I'm not convinced they are.

I don't think they are. I'm sure Gap and others were guilty of poor payment in the past

I've always felt very cynical about this argument. I want proof that a child choking on picking cotton in India is paid more than 0.001 penny if we pay £15 or £150 for a tee shirt. I'm not convinced they are. Profit float to the top of the market chain.

Not only that but the £1 t-shirt didn't start out at £1. It most likely started out priced at £10. Was reduced to £5 when the next lot of new stock came it. And when the dregs were left it was stuck on clearance for a quid. Then someone either snaps it up or it goes to recycling/landfill.

I've always felt very cynical about this argument. I want proof that a child choking on picking cotton in India is paid more than 0.001 penny if we pay £15 or £150 for a tee shirt. I'm not convinced they are. Profit float to the top of the market chain.

Agreed. I think there are companies that claim to be ethical though, whatever that means (if you Google "ethical cotton clothes" you'll find some, can't remember the names).

Was it really a happy ending?

• Danny died
• Stephen and Celeste remain estranged (romantically and via geography - and Stephen is estranged from his family, with whom is very close)
• Bethany and Celeste know what Stephen did/how he betrayed Viktor
• Edith has died
• We don't know what's happening with monkey flu
• We don't know how the deposing of Viv Rook has worked out - her replacement didn't look any better/was chillingly as bad if not worse!

It may have shown some kind of resolution for the Lyons family - Edith got to be 'uploaded' and will be present for them in some kind of way. But not much else was really happy.

I don't think Lincoln had transitioned. I think he was still a boy but just liked wearing skirts and ribbons.

I really enjoyed it but thought the ending was a bit rushed. Like a huge chunk of action should have happened between them storming the erstwhile camp and Viv Rook's downfall.

I find it hard to believe that the police were still independent at that point and not under her regime's control.

I've always felt very cynical about this argument. I want proof that a child choking on picking cotton in India is paid more than 0.001 penny if we pay £15 or £150 for a tee shirt. I'm not convinced they are. Profit float to the top of the market chain.

With a £1 t-shirt you don't need to be given proof though, you already have it.

Muriel's speech was a real challenge to me because it was confrontational, true and asked me questions that I don't know the answer to.

Phoningliz That's not the point. The point is, you can't assuage your conscience by buying (or by happening to be able to afford) a more expensive t shirt. There's no proof in the price that it was more ethically produced than the £1 t shirt. If we want to be ethical we have to be a bit less naive and more proactive than this.

Er, I'm not arguing that the solution is to pay £150 for a t-shirt.

You can check retailers websites to see if they are following an ethical code. Some will make their own up, and some follow SMETA guidelines.

Some retailers will randomly audit their factories and ensure they are following SMETA guidelines which includes fair pay.

I don't think Lincoln had transitioned. I think he was still a boy but just liked wearing skirts and ribbons.
Final scene with the Senor(a) seance - Lin is the one wearing a red blouse with long hair. Yes, in theory they could be simply continuing as female presenting/experimenting but I thought we were to assume they were transgender at that point.

I mean, you can buy t-shirts for £1 ethically, it's called second hand.

Otherwise it's not the price so much as researching a company.

Why assume transgender? I just felt it was there as a background thing without comment, which is fair.

Wearing women's clothing and having long hair doesn't make someone transgender.

Re the £1/£150 T shirt, surely the "solution" is to think before we buy anything. Do we really need it? The issue would look after itself if we didn't consume so much.

Documentary on netflix called True Cost for anyone interested.
Retailers using Bangladesh named here (h+m, m+s, primark etc)
www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1970431/true-cost-your-cheap-clothes-slave-wages-bangladesh-factory
Huff Post article wrt difference between 5 and 150 dollar tee doesn't back up any further cash going back to workers unless it is branded as sustainable/ethical
www.green-shirts.com/en/

As the other article says, it has to be a consumer choice to buy sustainable.
I bought a 2 euro t shirt (not reduced, that was its cost) from c+a last week. Fairtrade would have cost 25 euros. I don't have the 23 euro difference currently at my disposal.

Fairtrade chocolate or roses - not a huge difference in price.
T shirts, I know some will say 25 euros is not unreasonable and compared with designer stuff it's probably not - but it's still out my bracket. I bought cheap last week to save money (family of 5) but could have paid 8 euros for a very similar looking tee shirt - I doubt it was sustainable though and was still made in bangladesh.

I mean, you can buy t-shirts for £1 ethically, it's called second hand
True. I do recycle, we have an Oxfam and Red Cross here - they haven't had much in plus size lately though but you are right of course.

Wearing women's clothing and having long hair doesn't make someone transgender No, I know, I am being ignorant/showing bias - it was definitely an underplayed/background storyline - in the final scene Lin had passing privilege is all.