TRANSKIDS: ITS'S TIME TO TALK

[AbrahamsGone]

Currently on channel 4. started at 10pm, anyone watching?

I didn't think that @MissMarplesBloomers...

It's unfortunate that some people refused to participate in the documentary

But there are both Trans people who are very positive about it and pleasant enough (blogger) and trans people who are talking about concerns

Heart -I'm surprised too, I had thought it would be more biased towards transitioning. But if you think of it, transitioning is the more acceptable stance at the moment, so talking about the dangers and the future of transitionists is the right way to go argument.

The "debate" was some grotty basement room hired by some very anti trans people & protestors who were inordinately rude & hysterical, neither side showed much to make me want to listen to them.

This presenter is projecting her own confusion as a child onto todays trans children. She seems a lovely person & I don't doubt she is genuine, but not sure what the point of that was TBH

What a weird documentary!

Yes I don't think I've heard of the bad signs and concerns about trans (apart from on here but I mean in the general public domain)

I'm not really sure what to think about it all

I don't know atm

Perhaps society will embrace it and research will come out the way we understood, accepted and decriminalised homosexuality and we will figure out the issues that currently affect us with it

Or perhaps we will be seeing horrible side effects and saying we were wrong to embrace it in years to come

I find it scary as a parent in the now

She probably was projecting her own confusion.... But there are still some points which are food for thought?

If anything, this programme is at least raising awareness of the other side that has long been suppressed and that is;
A) once puberty kicks in some people will start feel comfortable with their bodies and embrace their natural gender.
b) There are possible dangers of transitioning which are still being researches
c) Some people after transitioning later go on to detransition meaning that the state of mind can alter again post surgery, hormone blockers etc.
D) Vital information to make an informed decision is being suppressed in the name of affirmation.

Very scary I agree. I hope my child grows up never doubting who she is

Purple - Amen.

I think they're lost, and they're being led.
Powerful stuff, thanks Stella.

Does anyone know... back in history has society ever embraced the idea you can swap sex/gender before?

I think homosexuality was accepted before it stopped being accepted and then was accepted again

It seems very much linked to me with the rise in social media, the rise in obsession with appearance on social media and the huge extremes of cosmetic surgery that young people are undergoing.

I think a lot of these people who having this bonkers surgery and altering themselves will come to regret it in middle-aged and I think that a lot of people who are middle-aged know this. When you get to middle age you realise how important it is to be healthy.

My child has been diagnosed as "gender non-conforming" by the Gender Identity Development Service.
Purpleme, your comment really stood out to me. I imagine that all parents dealing with this think the same!
But when you're dealt that hand, you deal with it as best you can... The view on Mumsnet often seems to suggest that the Trans community are in some giant conspiracy, just waiting to swoop on vulnerable children/parents, and nothing could be further from our truth.
My child came up with these feelings herself, at the age of 4. No-one pushed her, no-one led her, she certainly isn't 'lost' if I can help it!

Heart there have been trans people for centuries, and like gays were accepted by certain societies & then not by others over the years.

I think there needs to be an emphasis on specialist counselling for all children with GD right from the first diagnosis, support for & from parents to acknowledge they hear their childs confusion & love them & want to help.

That way those who are going through a phase or are confused /questioning can work through things & those that are absolutely needing to transition can slowly start the process knowing they are doing the right thing (for them)

It seems there is no one size fits all approach,& unfortunately as the NHS is under such strain, the GID clinics are struggling to offer that sort of service.

TigersTeeth I agree, it must be so, so difficult my heart goes out to you, I have a young relative going through this ,although not as young as your little one & he has been absolutely unwavering in his need to change & that has opened my eyes to a lot of new views.

Yes, thank you Stella. That documentary was more revealing than anything I've seen or read.

I agree with the woman Stella interviewed who said there is no research or medical evidence whatsoever that would indicate anyone is born into the wrong gender.

I believe societal constructs are to blame and I'm stunned that people can't see that. If society stopped categorising people into gender stereotypes and people were free to behave and dress in whatever manner feels right for them there would no confusion or need to change gender.

I've thought a lot about what I think led to her dysphoria, over the last 6 years. I strongly believe that it was a reaction to our overly gendered society, coupled with her asd-rigid view of the world, which combined to make her believe she couldn't be a girl, because she couldn't meet everyone else's idea of a girl.
I really do not buy into the gender-specific that goes on in our society, particularly our children, but it confuses me when a mainstay of the Gender Critical debate seems to be that women need to be 'protected', as a result of our sex, with 'women-only' spaces. Maybe we should just have small people toilets, and big people toilets. Or nice people toilets and mean people toilets? Or maybe we should just have toilets, and people can police themselves in their use of them?!
It just seems to me that the vitriol against Trans people seems to vilify the victims of this system, rather than the perpetrators.

That's interesting that trans has been accepted in history before...

Why did it become not so accepted later? Religion?

When I was growing up you only ever knew of perhaps one transperson and always an adult and I'm not even particularly old... now there's multiple trans kids you might know of in your life. It's exploded into society accepting it very fast... I think it increasing so fast is perhaps where the problems are happening, we aren't ready as such to handle it, we don't have the research or reassurance either way long term

I knew a little boy in playgroup mind who came in a dress everyday, he wasn't ever called a female name or female pronouns but always wore girls clothes - I looked on Facebook and that little boy definitely grew up to be a man and doesn't wear female clothing anymore. I don't think we ever thought anything as kids other than he's the boy who wears his dresses. Only occurred to me to wonder based on some MN discussions if he actually was a trans kid and Facebook peek

TigersTeeth I wish you all the very best with your child.

"My child came up with these feelings herself, at the age of 4. No-one pushed her, no-one led her, she certainly isn't 'lost' if I can help it!"

Many children now are not identifying at 4 or 5 but instead identifying or 'coming out' at just before puberty, at 11 or slightly later at 12 or 13 etc. I don't think all these 'presentations' are the same. Children identifying at 4 or 5 are not necessarily the same as children identifying at 12 or 13 or at 40 or 50.

TigersTeeth I agree our gendered society is largely to blame for some of these issues, I'd also suggest for later identifiers that there may be some social contagion going on.

If anyone watched 'The town that caught Tourettes' there is a real sense that people can be affected by the ideas/experiences of others.

"... coupled with her asd-rigid view of the world, which combined to make her believe she couldn't be a girl, because she couldn't meet everyone else's idea of a girl." This is something which, I believe, is so true for 'trans boys'/gender dysphoric girls, many will be on the spectrum.

"... it confuses me when a mainstay of the Gender Critical debate seems to be that women need to be 'protected', as a result of our sex, with 'women-only' spaces." We need protection because women and girls are in danger from predatory males. Little boys can be too which is why I took my son in the loos with me until he absolutely insisted on being able to go in by himself!

"Maybe we should just have small people toilets, and big people toilets." This is a very sensible idea. I would agree in bigger places that this would work. This is how schools work, toilets for kids and other toilets for adults.

"Or nice people toilets and mean people toilets?" That's the issue though isn't it. The not nice people, the mean people, don't identify themselves.

"Or maybe we should just have toilets, and people can police themselves in their use of them?!" That's maybe OK if you are a 6 foot tall strong person, I'm not, I've quite short and not at all strong. So I would like the males to be not in my toilets, in public areas, but I would like unisex/gender neutral fully enclosed toilets for everyone who wants to use them. This would protect trans boys who may not feel comfortable in the 'ladies' but may not be safe in the men's and anyone else who wanted to use them would/could.

"It just seems to me that the vitriol against Trans people seems to vilify the victims of this system, rather than the perpetrators."

If trans activists, not necessarily the same as trans people at all, are arguing that women should not be allowed to have our own spaces away from males, then they are part of the problem and lots of transsexuals actually agree with this.

A) once puberty kicks in some people will start feel comfortable with their bodies and embrace their natural gender.

Quite a few of them won't.

They need help to come to terms with their rapidly changing bodies and minds. The teens are an awful time, yet this is the time that society expects our children to know what they want, commit to it, be responsible to more "bosses" than they will ever be in adult life while their physicality and psychology go WILD.

DioneTheDiabolist has puberty really changed? It's got a bit earlier for girls but aside from that what has changed?

The ideas around sex and gender have changed in society but actual puberty hasn't changed much. And if children go on puberty blockers they will not actually expereince puberty or change, so it is very risky to use blockers, it's more than just a pause, IMHO.

DioneTheDiabolist has puberty really changed? It's got a bit earlier for girls but aside from that what has changed?

Puberty hasn't changed, all I see is adults making a fashion statement about having a child who they want to become a transsexual. Childhood is precious and short lasting, parents who capitulate to this trend should have their child taken into care.

Puberty hasn't changed, all I see is adults making a fashion statement about having a child who they want to become a transsexual. Childhood is precious and short lasting, parents who capitulate to this trend should have their child taken into care.

And yet I read that Brighton social services will get involved if you don't let your son wear a skirt if he wants to as school uniform

I do dispair as a parent and wouldn't have a clue if DS decided he identifies as a girl instead

I try not to influence him with my views and just ask questions what he thinks (he's only 6) and I did ask him if boys can become girls if they want to the other day out of curiosity to what he'd say in innocence... he looked at me like I was mad and told me it's impossible to be a girl if you are a boy

I'm interested to see if he changes his mind over the next few years of education on that

I don't know if puberty has changed. I know that once puberty kicks in, some children will start feel more/less comfortable with their bodies and gender.

Wisdom is what is needed. Not ideology.