The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 5 - SPOILER ALERT

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

Sorry to bring the real world into this but there are documented cases in the real world of men and boys being forced on pain of death or mutilation to have sex with a woman/girl against his will. Just one more way of using rape as a weapon of war against women to have the act performed by a neighbour or relative. I don't believe that the men and boys being coerced into this are regarded legally as rapists. I wouldn't condemn Nick.

I don’t think I have ever watched anything quite like this where the complexity of every single character is so completely fascinating to observe. Even the terrible evil characters like AL and SJ, I can have moments of sympathy (or something approaching sympathy) when you spot a glimpse into their inner world, only to be completely disgusted by them 5 minutes later.
The acting, writing and direction is superbe and I’m completely hooked.

I’m also completely hooked on the commentary on here too...as others have said, it has enhanced my enjoyed of the show so much more reading everyone’s perspective and seeing things mentioned that went way over my head. Thank you!

I’m really rooting for CLawrence to be Mayday...he is testing Emily. I’m convinced of it. I have a horrible feeling I am going to be left utterly dissatisfied next week!

Even the terrible evil characters like AL and SJ, I can have moments of sympathy (or something approaching sympathy) when you spot a glimpse into their inner world, only to be completely disgusted by them 5 minutes later.

Yes... except for Fred, Warren etc. I can't remotely imagine having a moment of sympathy for any of them.

Interesting article here on recent events in Argentina and Atwood explaining where the taking babies and giving them to leaders idea comes from.

www.stylist.co.uk/life/margaret-atwood-argentina-abortion-laws-slavery-vote-bill-protests-buenos-aires/221449

Reading the thread has just given me an idea! What if C Lawrence isn't yet Mayday but is in opposition to the regime and Emily is able to link him up with Mayday. He might not be able/know how/know of the resistance but have come to a point of hating what he helped to create. Emily can channel that into Mayday. Maybe!

Oooh interesting @thanksamillion

I find myself really struggling with Serena Joy. I know she did these really reprehensible things, and has been more than complicit in numerous rapes, both physically, and through her role in starting the whole regime, and yet as I watch her better moments I find myself wondering whether she will get to redeem herself. It's really hard for me to get my head around how I feel about her. I know I hate Fred and need him to be held accountable for all the evil he has done, but Serena seems to break some part of my internal logic.

I'm both dreading, and desperate for Sunday evening to come soon. I need to know how this series ends, but at the same time I don't want it to be over. I'm really annoyed I can't find my copy of the book, so will be ordering a new one imminently.

I think the awful thing about a lot of the posts here is how much we're hoping for a happy ending. And yet, with everything we know about Gilead it's really hard to see just how there can be one.

Hope. It's the cruellest emotion

Totally agree BIWI.

There's no possible happy ending. Even if June escaped she's got to face life without her children and dealing with years of trauma. There's no way of going back to her old life.

But there is hope. Gilead can be overthrown and the fascists brought to justice. June and Emily can have their children back, and their revenge for all their families' suffering.

The interesting question to be covered in future series, hopefully, will be: How is Gilead overthrown? How are the fascists brought to justice? How many leaders and collaborators are allowed to escape justice, and how do we feel about that?

And also the backstory of leading characters. How did Aunt Lydia end up a fascist? How did Serena Joy? Will they ever feel remorse?

And: how will being brought up in Gilead have affected Hannah? And Holly? How does society right itself after Gilead? How is its resurgence to be prevented?

The book implies that Gilead lasts a lot longer than just a few years.

Yes, it does - and I sort of feel it would be a bit of a cop out to have it otherwise in the dramatisation

I agree. I nice, happy ending just doesn't feel right. Although that's sad.

June can never have it all now, even if Gilead was overthrown and she got her kids back she would have to choose between Luke and Nick. I’m not sure if she truly loves nick but Luke will never truly understand what she went through.
Her relationship with Hannah will never be the same either.

I have a theory that the last episode might show Margaret Atwood playing June as an elderly lady, Gilead having been overthrown sometime before.

I don't think we will ever get our happy ending or that June's life can be what it was before.

I don't have any sympathy for SJ, I can see that she's a deeply complicated and troubled soul, and we do see snippets of humanity, but I just can't, the lengths she is prepared to go to to take another woman's baby are too much.

Even if she escapes and gets her children back Hannah knows a different life and parents so it'd be difficult. Holly is Nick's baby so how would Luke deal with that? I've worked with refugee organisation in the past and the whole process of being in detention centres, processing and the fear of being sent back and all the court cases. Remember the dental checks to check a child's age a couple of years back? Things like that to contend with. Plus PTSD and have no money or things.
Then if Gilead is overthrown and there's trials that takes ages. There's are also many that get away with it. Think about the Nazis and how some were given jobs with the allies. Some others have been found recently aged in their 90s.

I think there is a point where you have done so much that is wrong that to redeem yourself, to face up honestly to what you have done, would be an extraordinarily painful choice that crippled your mental health for the rest of your life.

Once you are in that deep... I think most people would not be strong enough to truly ever turn around and genuinely be repentant.

I think it's more likely that we'll continue to see flashes of kindness that soothe Serena's conscience but no more.

Has anyone read VOX yet? Being touted as the new handmaids tale... I love dystopian future genre so going to get it for next week when I am bereft from the ending of season two.
I have already read every Margaret atwood book, plus The Power, The Ship and Only ever yours,.. Any other recommendations for similar to while away Sunday evenings until season three starts

I want to read Vox redjelly
I liked Suicide Club by Rachel Heng that I read recently. It's about people that are selected by the state to live a really long time.

Ooh thanks, I will download that one too

There is only so far they can go with June escaping, June going back... the plot has to move on at some point.

Thanks @theredjellybean I need to grab some holiday books over the weekend. I saw Vox in Waterstones and thought it looked interesting but forgot all about it

I think I'm going to have to download the last episode tomorrow night rather than watch it on my phone Sunday

The Power by Naomi Alderman is another good dystopian fiction, which has a focus on women.

@eyycarumba.. If you haven't read the power I'd really recommend it. Seriously scarey stuff and gives a very different perspective on the gender 'war'