The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 5 - SPOILER ALERT

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

He knows Emily is a scientist but he had to ask what exactly she taught, so I don't think his motives involve drawing on her expertise.
He does seem to have some kind of motive but I don't know what. Is he a former economics professor? I wondered if the point of his character is to represent dispassionate intellectual curiosity: he wanted to see what would happen when he helped to set up Gilead, he watches the people involved like experimental subjects, hence his creepy questions to Emily.

I am finding the series increasingly unsatisfactory.

Last night's scene with the execution of Isaac & Eden I thought was gratuitous.

The previous episode's scene with Nick hasn't been properly explained. was it just a plot device to get June alone in the house to give birth? If so, poor script planning.

We are obviously supposed to be confused about the motivation and character of the new Commander with Emily- no doubt that will become clear next week.

The driving rain as the backdrop to an evil atmosphere is just a cliche. Let's hope they don't go back to snow next week.

Aunt Lydia is being drawn as an increasingly sympathetic character. I wonder if there is a serious plot reason for this, or whether it is again sloppy script editing.

Very interesting point a PP made about the art in the Commanders' houses, I hadn't picked up on that.

I thought there was a link between Commander Lawrence's art and the fact his wife was formerly an art teacher? Perhaps she was never happy with gilead and he tried to appease her?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel he also asked her where she was from, when she replied "here" he corrected her by saying something like "No, you're from Michigan" (I can't remember where he said she's actually from)

So he's asking her the questions, but it would appear he already knows the answers.

There could be a link between the fact that he started the Colonies and she has been in the Colonies. I agree with PP that he is a mystery. ATM he seems to be more sinister than anything else.

Thanks @Hygge that's clear now - makes sense to me now x

Getting really fed up now. Nick seems so have no expression beyond sad surly teen boy. Whilst apparently being immortal.

And the woo woo mother stuff is getting on my tits too.

What’s the “woo woo mother” stuff?

So, glad of this thread. I was feeling confused after watching the episode last night - delighted to see I am not alone in that!

Commander Lawrence knew the answers to all the questions he asked Emily. He was letting her know that he knows about her - agree, there's a plot potential here. Hope Commander Lawrence isn't a lazy version of Mr Rochester!

I think serena loves the baby and it's given her a bit of humanity. Her trying to breastfeed reminded me of my struggle to breastfeed my first baby which was agonising to watch.

I also think she has realised that even someone raised in Gilead- Eden and Isaac- can't go along with the ridiculous way if life. So it's never going to work.

We might get some answers about Nick being shot when we can read some articles after the final episode.

I found the drowning scene both horrific but also necessary. We have to be reminded that Gilead shows NO mercy to what it considers to be wrong doers. As with all total dictatorships, absolute control via fear and terror outweighs all other considerations. The fact that there is any mercy at all in the Waterford household seems to be nothing short of a miracle to me - even given the fact that both Fred & Serena are borderline sociopaths.

Really interested to see what will transpire in Emily's new household. All is not what it seems there at all.

I don’t think the Eden/Isaac execution was gratuitous. Horrific, yes, but not gratuitous. A lot has been said about the TV show sticking to MA’s original point that these things are all happening somewhere in the world, and yes, young girl runs away from arranged marriage with older man she has never met prior to the ceremony, is found and is killed, is something that happens. The fact that it’s awful does not make it gratuitous.

I first though C Lawrence was horrified by what he'd created in Gilead,and that's why he takes in all the 'staff' the others don't want - the Martha with one eye, the 'damaged' Handmaid, but then I thought he's creepy and after something, dunno what. The wife is obv been driven mad by the guilt and horror, and needs to be kept out of sight. Wonder if she will perform her par tin the Ceremony (if there is one)

As soon as I saw the pool, I knew they'd be drowned. The Saudis have been known to do the same to girls who lost their virginity outside marriage/adulterers. Not normally the men, tho! Horrific to watch. And of course 'public' executions are well documented there too (my exBIL worked over in Saudi for a while, and remembers hiding in a cupboard to escape being rounded up to go to a public be-handing.)

I was surprised at the choice of 'Nicole' - I thought they would bestow a more Biblical name, but of course it is a play on Nick. I wonder why Fred is going along with it? maybe he really is that thick. He certainly can't read facial cues - June's face when he talked with her was sheer disgust and revulsion, but he seemed to totally think she was into him! Scrabble indeed.

I didn't see the Nick / Nicole connection, until it was pointed out to me on this thread.

In my mind, they're entirely different names!

I hadn't made that link EvilTwins but yes you are right, the murder of Eden was like a so-called honour killing.

I couldn't help thinking about poor Eden and how hard she had tried to be a good wife in the way that she knew. And Nick's desperation when he was trying to get her to save herself was heartbreaking. I do wonder what will become of him - he will have to break at some point.

I thought the Commander making those speeches at the execution was Price but then remembered that he had died in the bombing.

It seems that Lydia is softening and becoming a bit more human.

Eden was the one that knew about the letters that made it to Canada. So, now she's dead does that mean that Nick's role in that undiscoverable?

I can't remember what has already been said about this issue but is it possible Waterford knows full well Nick is the father but doesn't care?
He knows he needs a baby to maintain his position and keep his wife off his back but hasn't shown much interest in her. So if Serena says 'Let's call her Nicole' as a way of saying 'fuck you', he replies 'yes, it's a lovely name' meaning 'you think I give a shit? You can't hurt me that way.'

I can't remember what has already been said about this issue but is it possible Waterford knows full well Nick is the father but doesn't care?

Waterford definitely knows Nick is the father. That's why he took such pleasure in making Nick hang that photo of Holly with him & Serena. It's also why there was that awkward look when Aunt Lydia said Holly looked just like her father.

We only have aunt Lydia's word that he masterminded the economy. It seems to have been Serena who was the instigator of this whole project so maybe it was his wife who came up with the economy but it had to be attributed to her husband.

Is the book massively long? I'd like to read it to get more of the background to Gilead.

Now that Serena has 'her' baby, does she need Fred any more? Would it be too fanciful to imagine that she could now orchestrate an escape to Canada (for her and Nicole, obvs) and leave Fred behind?

And June, and Nick and the rest. She's got what she wants, and now she wants a decent future for her child. She's not going to get that in Gilead.

Yes, but would Serena be able to keep the baby in Canada if June went as well?

In the book ‘Princess’, about women in Saudi Arabia, there’s a dreadful account of a family drowning their 15 year old daughter in their swimming pool for sexual transgressions. So yet again, something that has happened in the real world.

Thanks, Empress.
I tend to miss awkward looks because I sew in front of the TV and my screen is not very big so I miss some of the subtler visual stuff.

Re the book, it is not long - it doesn't have the detailed world building you expect these days in dystopian fiction and some scifi. So while I recommend it thoroughly, if you are reading it for more background you might be disappointed - it's quite economically written.

Also I think the TV Gilead is different in many ways to make it more relevant to now. One of the things I like about the TV effort, they've taken the novel as a starting point but been true to the spirit of its being a commentary on now. And our now is different to the now when it was written (1985) They have not treated it like a museum piece, which is good.

I'm another one who didn't see the significance of naming the baby Nicole. Duh!

So, I'm going to continue with being over-optimistic in my predictions for the next episode. I think we're going to find out in flashback what happened between last week's episode and this - where Nick was, and how he sets up the escape plan which will happen next week. Presumably, though, both of June's children will have to be left behind (to be rescued in S3). Maybe Luke and/or Moira are somehow involved. I think Emily will find a way to take out C Lawrence, possibly with the help of his wife who could be with Mayday. I think the Martha is his mistress and knows all his secrets which is why she can talk to him as she does.

Was anyone else utterly repulsed when Aunt Lydia told June she's a very popular girl now and all the commanders are lining up to have her as their property? Horrific.