The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 4

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING

Someone on the last thread asked for a link to the previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3216737-The-Handmaid-s-Tale-Season-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3269725-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3290403-The-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-UK-Pace-thread-3?pg=38

What do people think about that meeting for Hannah? Better to have seen her mum again, and lose her? Or would it have been better for her to have not had that experience and to have continued in what sounds a steady calm life?

Poor Hannah/ Agnes, only been beaten twice

Nick is an eye.... I don't buy that he would be oblivious to the need to keep Eden on side. He knows how the system works, and how people get betrayed, and he's used to hiding his feelings/thoughts.

It just doesn't seem credible that he'd be so cavalier when it comes to Eden.

If I were June, I'm not sure I'd have gone into the room when I saw her playing. I'd have asked the Martha to come talk to me & answer all my questions but I'd have worried it would be too upsetting & confusing for Hannah. Although, the Martha said they'd spoken about who they were going to see - if I'd been told my child was expecting to see me I'd not let them down. I don't think it was a good thing for Hannah though - even if she knows June doesn't get to keep the baby it must be hard for her to imagine her mum with a new child & a new life that she's not a part of & then to feel abandoned all over again, except this time it's her mum telling her to go...

I feel sorry for Hannah.

I read an interview that said they did research with children who have been taken away from their parents or had their parents taken away, and they spoke to psychologists and they said a lot of the children can't understand why their parents didn't "try harder" to stay with them or find them, which is what Hannah said to June.

They said they will remember and relive the last time they saw their parents, so Hannah will have been thinking of June getting hit on the head as she was taken from her, and Hannah did remember and asked her if it hurt.

They are also comparing it to what's happening in America right now and said when they were doing the research they never thought it would be happening for real in America as the show was airing.

And they talked about Emily being told she couldn't go to Canada because of the law, and her saying what law and being told "THE LAW" as her answer. Apparently Jeff Sessions has said that over the removal of children at the borders, and used the bible to back it up.

It's horrific to me to think of those real children, real families, having this done to them even as we speak. Apparently that's something like 2,300 children so far and nobody knows if they will be reunited with their families. The writers said they wanted to show the long term impact on children like Hannah and how even from such a young age it's never okay for them afterwards. They don't forget, they are affected for life.

Be careful of googling though in case of other spoilers in the interviews. Some of them talk about the three episodes we still haven't seen.

Yes Hygge, I've just watched a reporter in the desert talking about the lies he's been told, that there are no tents, no children... when in fact there are 400 small children there, he has established that, despite the lies. Sorry to bring US into it, but the similarities are too close at the moment.

That was a traumatic episode.

One thing that brought actual disgust over me was Fred wiping himself calmly after he had raped June. That made me want to throw up..the calm and unhurried way he did it showed he had absolutely zero regret.

So the trip to see Hannah for me, was just another form of torture. A reminder she’s going to lose her next child too...it’s all in his control.

I hope she gives birth on her own and gets some time with the baby, if there’s a car in the garage, even better

But I suspect Fred will have some of his people sweep the place very quickly when she hasn’t returned. He knows where she is after all.

So the trip to see Hannah for me, was just another form of torture. A reminder she’s going to lose her next child too...it’s all in his control.

Yes. He is messing with her head, in retaliation for her telling him the baby isn't his.

I sobbed and sobbed at the Hannah scene too. Had to go give DS a big squeeze, even though he was in bed. It's such hard watching but I'm compelled to see it through. I'm too emotionally invested now and I need to know June, Hannah and the baby are ok.

Is Nick still an eye.......the commander he was reporting to died in the bombing. Waterford is now running the show isn’t he?

Surely Nick is now “just” a driver?

The Hannah scenes had my absolutely sobbing........having my daughter leave me to see her dad for a few days brings me to my knees......I can’t imagine what it’s like knowing you probably won’t get to see your child again

I've had a few mild spoilers via YouTube, it had clips listed in my recommended videos but as soon as you open it! I've never searched for HT - I think I once watched an interview with Ann Dowd so it must be based on that. Clicked not interested so hopefully won't get anymore, but watch out!

Just watched the episode!!

The rape and torture are horrific but the scene with Hannah absolutely broke me. Full on sobbing for 30 minutes after. So powerful how did Elizabeth Moss get through that? She prob had to film it several times too it was incredible acting.

I think she will have the baby in the house hopefully she can find some matches and light a fire at least. I'm not sure if Fred set it up it would be very embarrassing for him to lose his pregnant handmaid. If he did do it I think he tipped the area guards off thinking both nick and June would be picked up. I doubt he would risk his position which he would be if he lost June again!

I think we will definitely see Serena lose it when she realises June is gone again. As a pp said she will prob miss out on the birth ceremony she desperately thinks she deserves.

Can't wait for next weeks episode. I hope the end of this series sees June escape but maybe series three she will go back in to rescue the children. I can't imagine her getting to Canada then letting it go (if the kids don't get out).

Re not being sure whether June should have gone to see Hannah and maybe just talked to the Martha instead, there’s a moment when June sees Hannah before Hannah sees her where she bites her lip (I think) and I thought she’d turn around and sneak out because she didn’t want to traumatise her further. I think she did the right thing though, she answered Hannah’s questions, told her how much she loved her and made the last time (or hopefully not, but probably for a while at least) she saw her mummy so much less scary than the first time. It was an awful choice to have to make but I think it was the right one.

I can't see it being better for Hannah to have been disappointed and not seen her mum. Also... Hannah has been kidnapped and indoctrinated. When she escapes (I'm going with when not if, please!) that moment when she saw her mum and how much she loved her and tried to protect her will be important to her recovery.

Hyggge-
"And this time, he was working against Serena, which is when Fred's plans usually go wrong"

This gave me a much needed chuckle after the awfulness of that episode. 100% true!

I am really enjoying the discussion here!

I don't think Fred set up the Hannah meeting to kill Nick and June or even have them captured. He must know his coat is on a shoogly peg right now - June went missing for weeks, the Canada trip was a disaster and now there are younger and virile commanders being promoted... He can't afford another scandal.

I think the Hannah visit was about control and I really think he thought he was doing a good thing for her whilst also showing his power. He is so clearly warped now.

Serena needs that baby, I think she is slowly realising what she has become though. The beating and the Canada trip showed her she isn't in control in any way. The humiliation of the false labour just brings it home how she isn't giving birth, it is all a sham. And then taking part in a rape? She definitely looked like she was having a slow realisation that she has created a monster in Gilead and in herself.

I want June to escape. I want her to find a way and not be dependent on rescue. I want her escape to kick start a rebellion of the handmaids.

And god, Aunt Lydia. She's cruel but then does something kind and I can't tell if her indoctrination and belief in Gilead has turned her goodness bad or if she was always cruel but with flashes of kindness anyway...

I don't think Fred set up the Hannah meeting to kill Nick and June or even have them captured. He must know his coat is on a shoogly peg right now - June went missing for weeks, the Canada trip was a disaster and now there are younger and virile commanders being promoted... He can't afford another scandal

Never thought of it like that, his ego has taken a beating, but he's desperate. He doesn't care about having a baby (as another PP said, it's his virility he cares about, and that has been 'proven' by his handmaid being pregnant) especially after being reminded it wouldn't be his - he's also cruel enough that taking the baby out the picture would be another punishment towards Serena.

And god, Aunt Lydia. She's cruel but then does something kind and I can't tell if her indoctrination and belief in Gilead has turned her goodness bad or if she was always cruel but with flashes of kindness anyway...

I believe AL is naturally callous, she enjoys her power too much. She doesn't resent punishing people, she's almost smug about it. But I'd be a liar if I said she wasn't one of my favorite characters, I'm desperate for her backstory and Ann Dowd is terrific.

I think that, because Hannah was wrenched away forcibly, the chance for a 'goodbye visit' even if 2-3 years later or whatever it is, is probably good.

If their initial parting had been more controlled I would have thought otherwise. However, June going 'over emotional' at the parting wasn't helpful imo.

My prediction is that Nick is toast. I can't see how he can be saved now. If Waterford has the slightest inclination that Nick is the father of June's baby, then he'll want to fry him alive.

I can't quite work out how June get's out of that house. I presume Waterford will twig that she's not home and send a rescue car & then threaten her to say nothing about what happened.

I'd say June's chances of escape have just dropped significantly.

I found both rape scenes grim watching. I almost found the ritualised one of Emily worse, as it was 'condoned'. Waterford's really angry rape of June was barbaric and Serena knew it was too. They are the worst kind of human beings ever - just disgusting.

But I don't understand. I thought Fred had known for ages the baby wasn't his? I though that came out way back? OK he ight not've had his nose rubbed in it (by June) but I did think it was common knowledge.

Now another stupid question... I'm sure we know but I may have forgotten. Does Nick know the baby is his?

Sorry if I'm asking the obvious

Fred isn't capable of coming up with such a detailed plan. Proven by the fact that June and Serena did his 'best work'.

If the guards were tipped off they would have had to find the heavily pregnant handmaid who had complications which means she could die in childbirth (and that itself could risk the baby dying) which wouldn't be allowed to happen in gilead. Babies are priority.

I have a feeling Hannah's adoptive parents didn't know she went to see June.

Nick will be questioned and sent back to Fred and Serena. There is still so much for his character to do so I don't think he will be killed off just yet.

I can see Eden handing herself in for the kiss with isaac.

June will birth the baby in the house and I'm hoping Serena will blame the lack of birth ceremony on Fred alone. Maybe it will be her wake up call to pair back up with June and work against gilead from the inside? I really want a bonnie and Clyde partnership between them where we see them take down gilead and live happily ever after, June with her 2 babies and like in Canada and Serena in hawaii with a child of her own. Maybe that will have to wait for a 3rd series though as there aren't many episodes left

I can't figure out how intelligent both Nick and Waterford are. Nick often doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the box, eg the fact that he doesn't seem to see how important it is to keep Eden on side. But perhaps he just doesn't give a shit.
As for Waterford, did he get this far on Serena's coat tails, or is he more devious than we have seen?

Nick is kind of interesting, iirc his backstory was just that he was a guy that wasn't doing that well in the US and Gilead was basically a good work opportunity?

No, I'm not sure he is terribly bright. I think he's known what he was doing was wrong for a long time but didn't know how to get out of it, and June has sharpened all that but he still didn't know what to do.

He could have shot Hannah's guard and they could have all run away... But he didn't.

The more I think about it the more annoyed I feel that he didn't try to use the opportunity to run for it.....

I don't think that they could have made a run for it. Fred sprang the trip on him so he couldn't plan anything and he didn't know what was going on.

I thought that he should have stayed inside the house and hid with June and then if the other guards came in he could have shot them.

But at this point, he hasn't done anything 'wrong' in Gilead terms - he was just following orders.