The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 (UK Pace) - thread 2

[CruCru]

Hi all

Here is the next thread for those who are watching The Handmaid's Tale Season 2 on Channel 4. Please don't put any spoilers on this - the other thread (for those in other countries who are watching ahead of the UK) is www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3239228-Handmaids-Tale-Season-2-SPOILERS-VIEWING-AHEAD-OF-UK-SREENING.

'Serena was always going to take a baby. But it makes sense that she was shot in the part of her body that is at the centre of the war on women.'

Wow. That whole post was so well put

This thread is absolutely brilliant. So many interesting posts that are helping me appreciate the series even more than I am already.

Coming back to the Eden situation. Child marriage is still an issue in the USA - in many states, with parental consent, the age a person can get married is 14, still to this day.

I wonder if Eden will fall pregnant and how that will change the dynamic in the house?

If truly keen to repopulate the country, why do they choose such an inefficient way of going about it - sex once a month? The ttc boards on here would never recommend that!

Regarding Serena keeping the baby if Fred died, I doubt they’d take a living child from a War Widow, if anything she’d be highly honoured.

A Handmaids unborn baby on the other hand, could be reassigned, to a ruling man.

Particularly if whispers it wasn’t Fred’s

Serena herself would surely be reassigned though, “you have been issued a woman” perhaps she and June resssigned together

I can see Serena finally losing it and the last shot of her dying in the Colonies

The belief is that fertility rates have dropped as a punishment from God, a very similar ethos to Westbro Baptist actually

So they are trying to make everything quite puritanical to win Gods favour

Finding Eden a very disconcerting character, totally brainwashed? For me she was far keener to have sex than Nick, who had to be persuaded. But her consent was as a result of being brainwashed

Eden was probably of the first generation who was brought up under the ethos/religion. She probably doesn't remember what it was like before.

@MrStarkIDontFeelSoGood You raise a good point - what happens to widows in Gilead?

Wow, Hygge, absolutely brilliant and spot on post.

Yes hygge I enjoyed reading what you wrote about the womb being the centre of the war on women!

Hygge I love reading your responses and thoughts! So well written.

If it looks like June and the baby will be reallocated to another commander because Fred is either dead or severely injured, then we might see a drastic turnaround in Serena and her relationship with Offred, maybe helping her?

I wish it was Sunday again. I hate when it’s not Sunday!!

She's fifteen, she was married to a stranger she had never met. A stranger who didn't know he was going to marry her until he was handed a box with rings in it moments before she stood in front of him.

But that was the reality for women, particularly upper class women, for much of history - they had no choice and knew they had to 'do their duty'. It is the reality for arranged (not necessarily forced) marriages today. I'm not convinced it constitutes rape just because the women (or the men) don't enjoy it if they believe it's their duty. I'm sure a lot of women through the ages put up with sex because they thought it was what you had to do when you were married and because they wanted a baby. They may or may not have come to enjoy it later.

I'm not suggesting it's right just not sure it's rape.

It’s a form of rape as the woman has no say in it. She is brainwashed to believe it’s her duty and denied autonomy over her body, as in rape. She is even prevented from being taught the joys of sex with someone you independently find attractive or care about. She is merely a vessel for the patriarchal society.

It’s fascinating to read all the different ideas and theories on here. I gained some insights I hadn’t considered before. I was particularly struck by the person who said one of the reasons Serena hates June is because June’s defiance and assertion as a person of free will triggers some guilt in Serena which she really does not want to confront.

Can anyone tell me are we meant to believe that Serena’s comment to Commander Waterford last week that Nick cares for June’s well-being was a tacit message that Nick is the father and it was this scene alone that alerted Waterford to the fact that Nick is probably the father? Thank you.

Interesting comparison of the topical issues and fears in the book regarding falling birth rate as compared to our concerns now about overpopulation and scarcity of resources.

Certainly in Japan now the falling birth rate and ageing population is a cause for concern - there will be a shortage of nurses and construction workers, for example, going forward. But presumably in a country with very low immigration the change will be (possibly reluctantly) to import younger skilled workers...

Didn't the Mexican ambassador in series 1 imply that the same fertility problems existed in her country? Wasn't Gilead presenting their Handmaid 'solution' as (a sanitised version of) something to be emulated?

Yes britabroad, I think they were suggesting it.

Eden may we'll have been raped but I'm not sure that makes Nick a rapist. He didn't want to have sex with her but the alternative was being hung. He has no free will either. Whilst he may have a little bit more freedom as an eye (only because he is useful) most men in his situation are also trapped. So I don't disagree Eden was raped but cannot see nick as a rapist.

For me she was far keener to have sex than Nick, who had to be persuaded. But her consent was as a result of being brainwashed

You have to wonder what happens in cults where children are brought up by parents and others around them who convince them that they have to behave in a certain way or else they will be punished by God. If that's all you know and all you've been taught, then that's what you'll do - especially if you've seen the consequences of not obeying. I wonder if she's been told she'll burn in hell if she doesn't obey God and follow the rules of the cult.

Eden was concerned she would be seen as a gender traitor if they don't have sex so she too is worried about being sent to the colonies.

What happens if they don't produce a baby, do they have to prove they are having sex and are not gender traitors?

I wonder if she's been told she'll burn in hell if she doesn't obey God and follow the rules of the cult.

Interesting point because it occurred to me the other day that there’s very little reference to hell/heaven/damnation for all eternity - or have I missed it? It all seems to be about Gilead and their here and now - serving the regime. Obviously they talk about god’s will but I haven’t necessarily spotted anything about convicted criminals/traitors going straight to hell, and when people died in the colonies scenes there’s not been anything about them “going to a better place” or whatever. Unless I’ve just missed that.

So how does raising kids work in Gilead? None of the mums can read stories to their children, sing the alphabet song, sing one, two buckle my shoe etc!

Aunts have a special dispensation to read & write. Maybe they also teach the children?

glamourous It's not just about enjoying it, she's had no free will in choosing it.

This is her duty, she has no choice. Sex without choice is rape.

Even her instigating it was done because of duty, and is the result of the brainwashing and indoctrination about her purpose.

So how does raising kids work in Gilead? None of the mums can read stories to their children, sing the alphabet song, sing one, two buckle my shoe etc!
A couple of hundred years ago few women could read and write they would tell stories from memory and sing nursery rhymes - the oral tradition.
This is her duty, she has no choice. Sex without choice is rape.
This would equally apply to Nick though - I'm not sure how he even dtd because he was clearly repulsed by the whole thing. So there were two victims and no perpetrator other than the state. I'm still not convinced, though, she did choose to have even though her reasons for doing so were, by our standards, wrong.

It is applicable to Nick, yes.

He had no choice either. His 'wife' has been indoctrinated enough to believe that the only reason he might not fulfil his duty was because he was a gender traitor, and she would have reported him for it and he would have been killed.

Neither of them were free to make their 'choice'. No more so than a cow and a bull put in a pen together by a farmer has a choice. Perhaps in Gilead Nick and Eden have even less choice than that.

They are both victims of Gilead.

So I don't disagree Eden was raped but cannot see nick as a rapist.

I agree. I think they’re both victims. They’re both being forced to have sex when given their own free will they undoubtedly wouldn’t choose to. It’s kind of like one of those weird cults were people are made to have sex with different people. I know nick isn’t a child but it has reminded me of a child sex abuse experience I know of.