Britain's Fat Fight (HFW)

[Tigresswoods]

First of all, I love Hugh, we've watched him from the start of River Cottage. Second I think a programme on obesity & raising awareness etc is a good thing.

However AIBU to feel like we've seen it all before? I'm sure I've watched almost exactly that programme with Jamie & Tom Kerridge & probably someone else too?

Actually I think fair play to him, he is a celebrity but Jamie Oliver managed to engage government and effect a change in school dinners. I wonder if between him and Michael Moseley we might actually see some change in policy and legislation.

Eolian Interesting that you say that about the message not getting through, it has seemed to have got through about plastics, the bad eating one just needs to be repeated enough.

Not really. The message is everywhere all the time. To the point of becoming so much part of the scenery that it's easy to ignore. Finding and getting into the habit of alternatives to the use and disposal of plastics is a very different matter to achieving continuous and permanent willpower over your own ingrained and pleasurable eating habits. There's no comparison. People know the message. There are just too many things stopping them from obeying the message.

It took a long time to change the culture around smoking, but it did change eventually.

Yes but the message is clear-cut and unambiguous with smoking. And the public areas smoking ban made a huge difference. People don't have to smoke but they have to eat. Avoiding exposure to the temptation of unhealthy food is impossible.

Yes sorry, sloppy language on my part. By 'constantly' snacking, I meant 'regularly snacking.' It isn't that I never have a biscuit with my cup of tea, or eat outside meals, and heaven knows, when I do snack, it is rarely on something healthy.

But why do we have a culture of snacking at all? I am sure, as another poster said, that the culture of snacking is partly responsible for the obesity crisis. I think it is misleading to promote 'healthy snacks.' Snacks are, in and of themselves, an unhealthy way of living, when combined with 3 daily meals. The meals alone should be enough.

But yes, I agree with notacooldad that there is more than one thing at play here.

Fair play dumbledoresgirl in fairness I never snacked much as a kid, not even really fruit, just the odd biccy. My dcs however, ask for snacks morning, noon and night.

I think it is a bit different with kids. There are times when they need more. I have 4, either teenage or young adult, and one at least seems incapable of filling up. He is rake thin though, possibly underweight for his height. My feeling is, if kids are thin (really thin, not the sort of thin that would have been considered podgy in my youth) and hungry despite eating 3 good meals a day, then snacks are fine. And maybe in that case only, you can start talking about healthy snacks rather than junk food snacks. But I always say to my children 'enjoy being able to eat so much food while it lasts because it won't last forever.' My feeling is, a lot of adults have failed to transition from that period in their life when they needed more calories.

I have one daughter who is underweight and participates in a lot of calorie-burning sport. Age 12, she's on the school's track and field team and she swims whenever she can for fun. She is already considering triathlons. Similarly, my husband and I have slender builds and love sport of any sort. I'm due to do the Kiltwalk on Sunday, then later in May do both the Cowal Way and the West Highland Way. I love, love, love hiking and hillwalking. I never weigh myself (don't own a scale) or class any food as good or bad/healthy or unhealthy and have never been on a diet.

By contrast, DS has a huge, stocky build and has to be bribed to do sport. He's also autistic and has issues around food taste, texture and feel. He used to be quite podgy but now he's just mega tall and stocky. He exercises loads because we drag him along on hikes, swimming and cycling.

It's a real balancing act, but I still don't believe in demonising food at all. I think it sets up a bad relationship with food and the orthorexia threads on here are legion.

There are a huge number of factors that go with being overweight and obese, IMO, but demonising and shaming does nothing to solve any of it, IMO.

I think that one if the reasons the 'message' isn't getting through is because what TVs message us about healthy eating keeps changing.

Take eggs - I grew up with the message 'go to work on an egg' - something healthy . Then there were messages about high cholesterol and to not eat too many - not to mention the salmonella scare. Now various omelettes/ scrambles / frittatas are synonymous with s healthy diet.

Fish - so good for us - high protein, low fat - or fatty fish has those good-for-you fats we must all eat - but wait a minute- what about the mercury content- don't eat too much!

Then we get the low-carb vs high-carb, high protein or not-too-much-protein. When I was first trying to watch my weight in Ghent early 90's the message from my Rosemary Conley book was low-fat or no-fat - eat as much sugar as you like!! Now sugar is evil/enemy number one!

Is it any wonder people take any healthy eating message with a pinch of salt (or not as the case may be - bad for high blood pressure!)

Typo what the message is keeps changing ...

Fgs where did Ghent come from? In the 90s

It's a pity that was a typo. I had a lovely image of you living in Ghent while trying to lose weight in the 1990s.

I succumbed and watched it.

a. its a good job that wall of chocolate was up there on a cool day otherwise it could have melted and ended up like a giant cow pat.

b. WTF are TopShop selling sugary stuff. Surely they want the young women to shop there to be able to fit into their clothes otherwise they wont buy them.

I could never afford Topshop though when i was younger or now but im too old now so not their demographic.

And he went into an employer

Now thats a first.

The difference between obesity and smoking

Smoking can be avoided all together. People can no longer smoke indoors and if you want to quit you can.

You can't 'quit' food, as it's a daily requirement as a human being. So everyday is a conscious decision to choose the 'right' foods. If you've got sod all else to look forward to, the 33p magnum imitation from Iceland/Aldi is a darn sight more appealing than a banana.

Personally I cook from scratch and meal plan religiously to avoid making snap decisions for a takeaway, but within 0.2 miles of our house we have;
1 chippy
2 Chinese takeaways
1 Indian
1 papa johns
1 sandwich shop.

It's absolutely bonkers. But shop space is getting cheaper because so many retailers are failing, so sticking a Greggs into an otherwise empty store front brings the council desperately needed revenue, blow the fact it's more crap food readily available.

It's such a huge combination of factors, but councils aren't going to start limiting the number of food premises they allow in town centres as they need the revenue.
Ensuring there is a clear and consistent message about portion control and what's a treat need to be easier to understand.

Schools need to focus MUCH more on healthy eating and portions, as well as physical activity. Cooking lessons are all but gone from the national curriculum because so much emphasis is on academic performance, it's the same reason so many people are in debt, they're never taught to manage a budget & understand basic living costs.

Smoking can be avoided all together.

So can fizzy drinks or fry ups or any one of a thousand foodstuffs that some people never eat and others eat a lot. In either case you do have to persuade people not to do something they enjoy doing.

You’re right about the easy availability of thousands of calories of cheap junk, though.

Within walking distance at the top of my road is.

a Dominos

a Pizza Hut
a kebab place
and a chippy.

Agree Stylish someone addicted to alchohol or drugs or booze can live without them

You cant live without food and if you have been addicted to certain foodstuffs you really have to make an effort not to touch it although this gets easier as time goes by.

Take eggs - I grew up with the message 'go to work on an egg' - something healthy . Then there were messages about high cholesterol and to not eat too many - not to mention the salmonella scare. Now various omelettes/ scrambles / frittatas are synonymous with s healthy diet.

I remember watching a segment on TV a while ago where the researcher was made to eat a ridiculous amount of eggs over a 2 week period (I think). They measured her cholesterol before and after the experiment and there was no change.

I think that many people have lost sight of what normal food is. Over 50% of the 'food' we purchase is ultra processed. There is a mindset that diets are either processed shite or at the other end of the scale, quino with rocket leaves. To me, a perfectly good, cheap nutritious meal is egg, chips and beans yet nobody eats this kind of thing anymore because we all think we deserve something more of a treat.

For poor people it is not just buying and getting the food home that is the problem. It is having the skills, knowledge and equipment to prepare it.

My mum is poor. She is 64 soon. Works in a NMW job. Can scarcely afford to buy food some weeks. Her element has broken in her oven. Will be £50 to repair. She broke the lid on her slow cooker. Couldn't afford a new one. She keeps her gas and electric costs as low as possible so doesn't like the stove on for hours on end.

She is lucky as she has 6 dcs and we all do bits and pieces of extra cooking for her to keep in her freezer.

My dsis is skint too. She works full time, has 2 dcs and a disabled dp. She is also pretty dyslexic and struggles to follow and read recipe books. She has a limited amount of healthy recipes she can do. Until I told her the sugar content of dolmio type jars she thought they were healthy. She can't afford to waste food so is understandably reluctant to try new foods incase she either ruins it or no one eats it.

By the time she gets in from work at 6pm the dcs have already had crap food like crisps, sweets or a bowl of cereal. Her DP can't cook due to his disability. She buys fruit which is always eaten and tries to buy healthier snack stuff. But she can get a bag of 15 packet of crisps for about £1.50. Or £1 for a pack of rice cakes. Or bread sticks. Or 1/3 of a block of cheese.

When you are poor there are a million and 1 reasons why you eat shit food. And a million and 1 people with an opinion on why you are fat and unhealthy (dsis isn't neither are her dcs but that's probably genetic as well).

But until you have made a choice between a food shop or gas and electric, when a 10p bag of crisps is a treat, when it's a choice between milk or bread, when you dread the dcs being ill because you can't afford to not work, when you don't have the bus fare to get to the doctors or even enough credit to ring for an appointment, then don't judge.

We would all like to get up in a morning and feed the kids porridge and eggs for breakfast. But when it's your disabled partner doing breakfast and you don't trust him to use the cooker and you are already 2 hours into a 12 hour shift cheerios might be the only option.

I have been poor. Bones of my arse poor. Luckily for me I had enough knowledge and kit to be able to knock up a veg soup. Or turn a tin of tomatoes into a pasta sauce. I could make 2 meals from 1lb of minced beef. And knew how to use veg and pulses to bulk out meat.

But not everyone has that knowledge. And as much as I find Jamie Oliver a twat his Ministry of Food book is really good at getting people who can't cook cooking.

Doesn't help if you don't have it tho. Or don't have a working cooker. Or can't get to decent supermarket. It's all very well saying takeaways cost more but they don't always. And a takeaway requires zero prep, zero equipment and zero gas or electricity.

Fruit and veg might be cheaper. Pulses might be healthier than meat. Homemade will always be better than processed stuff. Everyone, even poor folk knows this. Poor doesn't equal stupid. But poor does limit your choices. And not only are poor people skint they are often time poor as well. Or disabled. Or elderly.

I don't think HFW is the guy to front this - this whole thing for him smacks of him looking desperately for a new "cause" to keep his face on the telly. He seems to just be bouncing around from worthy cause to worthy cause at the moment to be able to bang out a new TV 4-parter and it's doing him no favours at all.

I've just hit pompous lecturing overload on the obesity problem to be honest - it needs someone to come along with an actual clue about how certain sections within society have to live and start taking it on - not chefs who really have no clue about you not wanting to leave your oven or hob simmering away for ages if you're tight on money, sod all freezer space if you've got one at all, and needing to make your shopping budget last on one trip to the shops and not assume you can waft down the local high street to the butcher and fruit shop every day (our high street's better off than most but even we lost our local fruit shop last year). Jamie Oliver's an irritating twat but he got it more right than anyone else has so far with his Ministry of Food stuff - actually was what gave me the kick up the arse to start figuring out how to cook myself so I didn't end up like the woman on there ordering donner and chips for her and her kid every night (I grew up with a single mum who was working days and lots of nights and she just had to make sure stuff was in the house for me to eat that I could ping in the microwave or cook under the grill so never really learnt more than that).

It isn't just about WHAT we eat though, I eat very healthily ( I did when I was 3 stone OW ) I lost the weight when I started with Paull Mackenna's way of eating.

That involves knowing your body, only eating when you're hungry ,eating slowly and mindfully and STOPPING when you're full. Drinking much more water too. It's how we should all eat naturally and it works!

I usually roll my eyes at these programmes, but im glad he took WHSmith to task they are horrendous for the chocolate displays, child height sweet vats inthe que exasperate me so much when your in a long que with a young child. Julie was brilliant and told him what he needed to hear, the thing is he is of a different world and it was interesting to see it through his eyes and like omg moment these people live bleak lives.

I know people who are highly educated and are still massively overweight. It’s not just people who are poor - plus chocolate isn’t cheap anyway! Wonder how much that fridgefu of crap cost when a bar is 60p.

It's a breakdown in generations too. Families used to help each other and teach each other to cook/share recipes. My grandmother taught me to cook and bake etc, which means I'm confident using, creating and adapting recipes. I enjoy cooking because I understand it, but I imagine it could be very intimidating being presented with raw meat, pulses and chopped tomatoes to make lasagne when Iceland sell the ready made version for £1.