Howard's end

[Braceface]

Anyone watching?

Tayto I think this is where the "Only connect" epigram comes in.

Mrs W was quite mystical and represented old England and made an instant empathetic connection with Margaret.

The Schlegels feel an instant connection for Leonard.

It's posing instinct against etiquette.

Yes, Mrs W was horrified when Margaret told her their lease was running out - she was much more upset about it than Margaret was.

I don’t like MM anyway which doesn’t help.

I’ve not seen the film but will stick with this series then watch it.

Are the Schlegels considered below the Wilcoxes?

The Wilcoxes are richer, but more showy (vulgar?)

The Schlegels are confident enough to push boundaries-nothing to prove/secure of their standing?

The Wilcoxes think of themselves as solid , established , unquestionable - though Mrs Wilcox had a more interesting side to her. The Schlegels are intellectuals with an interest in social reforms.

The excitement of the story ( and it is exciting ) lies in the way these standpoints are challenged.

diddl, sorry I didn't really answer your question. The Schlegels kind of side-step social norms and feel they are beyond all that , but yes I'm sure the Wilcoxes feel they are above them in that sense.

The fact that the Schlegels are half German isn't all that relevant as WWW1 hasn't happened yet - during the war things would have become much tougher for them.

I’m loving it. But probably in a Leonard-dy’ wish I could talk about it comfortably’ type way. MM is gorgeous and reminding me of my dh which helps. I’m sure dh would be utterly confused by the comparison!

I think MM is just right - seems like a stuffed shirt but there's more going on! Your husband must have hidden depths!

In addition to being intellectuals the Schlegels are quite rich, which helps. But they lose out on status (in the Wilcoxes' terms) because a) they are half-continental and b) the head of the household is an unmarried woman.

Schlegels are actually "better" as older family and intellectual, questioning, outward looking and thoughtful. Wilcox's think they are "better" commerce, practical, literal. I think - did my a levels in 1992!

As others have mentioned, the Schlegels are very much an established, old-money upper-middle class family. This enables them to be liberal and bohemian in their attitudes, secure in their status. Forster based them on the Stephens sisters, who were later better known by their married names - Virginia Woolf and Vanessa Bell.

The Wilcoxes, meanwhile, are new money. They are members of the newer mercantile class who have made a significant fortune from the Empire - enough to buy themselves a place in the upper-middle classes. They are much more concerned with appearances and correct behaviour (as will later be apparent when Charles Wilcox's reaction to a situation will be compared with Tibby's) because they have a degree of status anxiety - not that they would ever admit it.

It is worth pointing out that the Wilcox business is the Imperial and West African Rubber Company. Forster's readers in 1910 would have been aware of the 1904 Casement report which was a famous and shocking exposé of the mistreatment, torture and mutilation of 'natives' by the rubber trade in the Congo. There's a definite sense that he is not an ethical man, and there's a quotation about him buying forests from the natives 'for a few bottles of gin'.

" They are much more concerned with appearances and correct behaviour"

Yes-they wouldn't have behaved as the Shlegels did at the recital & I'm sure would never have joled about stealing an umbrella.

They are also always properly dressed.

Isn't Jacky Bast too well dressed?

I agree that Jackie is too well dressed. I was quite surprised as the book makes them poor. The Schelgels and the Wilcox’s spent time together in Germany. I think that is where the friendship began.

They are very poor. Leonard is supposed to be seriously malnourished.

Re MM’s suitability as Mr Wilcox, Antony Hopkins has spoiled it for me. In the film he looks older than MM and thus more authentic. And (apologies for the slight spoiler) his dismissive reaction to the news of the consequences for Leonard Bast of the fate of the Porpheiron Insurance Company is just masterful. I shall be watching for how MM plays it when we get to that bit of the story.

My favourite Anthony Hopkins bit in in the film is when Margraret confronts him about a certain character. I won't reveal it but I can't see MM's Mr Wilcox reacting in the same way (which I think is the third episode).

haha thanks, didn’t know about the Virginia Woolf connection.

I knew EM Forster when I was growing up. I had a letter from him saying that to have his work read and discussed by young people was a form of immortality, and he was very happy to know I'd enjoyed it. He was a painfully shy man and I'm sure he would never have said all that out loud.

Oh Footle you lucky thing. He sounds lovely.

Sometimes I'm nervous to know about authors in case they're curmudgeons or otherwise disappointing.

At first I despaired. Why, oh why would the BBC waste its time remaking a Merchant Ivory masterpiece, which won several Oscars and had a brilliant cast?

But I am warming to it - there are some parts that seem truer to the book. The tension between Leonard and Helen was palpable in the 'lost hat' scene.

Yes it seemed better this week.

Tibby is good

And can I find that letter, Battleax? Can I hell.

It looks like it warms up. I will give the second episode a go on I player. Hopefully, Aunt Juley does not feature too much.

Why, oh why would the BBC waste its time remaking a Merchant Ivory masterpiece, which won several Oscars and had a brilliant cast?

To be fair, they're adapting the book not remaking the film.

I'm quite enjoying it, but I haven't read the book and don't remember the film.

Did Julia Ormond have an odd way of speaking? Like some of her words ran into each other and the spaces between others were too long. Until I realised it was her I thought the actress might be a non-native English speaker.

Is Helen Schlegel meant to be endearing? She keeps saying blunt/rude/tactless things, someone picks her up on them, and she says, wide-eyed, 'Oh, did I say something wrong?' like she didn't know. I'm finding her very rude and very irritating!

I love the Schlegel's house and will miss it massively. I don't know if they ever end up moving to Howards End but I hope so because it's lovely too.

Things seem a bit unexplained, like Leonard being quite so prickly –leaping up and getting affronted as soon as the Wilcoxes walked in the room etc.

Is the 'tension' mentioned between him and Helen sexual tension?