The Handmaid's Tale Vol 3

[CruCru]

Hi all

As the last thread has all but totally filled up, I've started this new one.

Bit shallow - but do you think the Wives are allowed cosmetics? I got the impression that make up is banned but they do all look very polished.

Re: whether Offred/June will continue the relationship with Nick or go back to Luke if she is ever able to, hmmm. I don't know about Nick. Seems to be on nobody's side but his own, I wouldn't trust him much. Luke too is a very flawed character.

There are no male heroes in this.

somethingonce "when Attwood is no longer with us" , will be dreadful, but she will leave the legacy of her books, and just as importantly the legacy of all the younger writers she has mentored and encouraged through her career. She has by all accounts been a shining light in developing and encouraging other writers.

The women are the enemies of women, too. The Aunts and commanders' wives.

I have savoured every moment of this series and devoured these threads. Echoing others, thanks to all who have contributed and posted links - it has really enhanced the experience for me. THT is one of my all-time favourite books, but I haven't read it for about 10 years and consciously resisted temptation to re-read during the series.

The music, the cinematography, the casting, the acting, the way they managed to capture the essence of the book and go beyond it so plausibly... I didn't want it to end and am so glad the final episode didn't disappoint. Have been replaying it in my mind today. One thing that struck me was the contrast between the scene at the beginning of last night's ep when June was forced to apologise to Aunt Lydia, in fear and terror and humiliating subservience, and the way she used the same words so defiantly, calmly and deliberately when refusing to stone Janine.

I also found it satisfying seeing the Waterfords so disempowered when June was escorted from the house - under the guise of official sanction so there was nothing they could do about it. They are left with nothing but mutual contempt and distrust, and I don't imagine Series 2 will hold a lot of hope for their relationship. (Can't remember whether their future is alluded to in the book.)

DH watched every episode with me, though hasn't wanted to discuss it as much afterwards. Hmm, even using the term 'DH' feels disturbingly Gileadean... We both want to see more about the reactions of the outside world in the next series. Given that Canada are so prepared for refugees and clearly have some understanding of the horrors being perpetrated, why aren't they more active in opposing the regime?

June's reaction to seeing Hannah was so powerful, her verbal attack on Serena so primal, so moving. But the bit that had me in tears last night was Moira's reaction to her welcome, and her reunion with Luke.

I cannot wait to see where MA takes them all in Series 2.

od forbid that we could actually have an article that focuses on biological, sex-based oppression in a review of a TV series about biological, sex-based oppression

I'm sure trans people would have been sent to their death in the colonies or hung from the wall in Gilead.

What an amazing episode - just finished watching it.

It seemed to me as if Aunt Lydia was genuinely distressed about having to order Janine's stoning to death. But - just like the handmaids - she has no choice about her role in it, and presumably as a non-fertile older woman, if she cannot control her handmaids then her future is bound to be a little shaky as well.

It was such a powerful scene - I genuinely thought June was going to deliver a blow to Janine to knock her out before the stoning - I'm surprised the guards didn't shoot Janine in front of them when they started to rebel and then cart off Lydia.

I loved how the commander had to try to crawl to Serena and how she saw right through him. I'm not sure if he knew he was infertile - surely if their primary aim was to produce babies then they would have tested the men along with the women? It seems so pointless that fertile women would die because they failed, when there was never any chance they would get pregnant, or is that the whole point of it, to underline the fact that the regime is based on oppression rather than anything else.

I must re-read the book, it is an old favourite.

Oh and was wondering if Canada has infinite resources to support refugees - surely they might be trying to defend their own country - I wonder if they have declining birth issues or not - presumably if South America does then they would as well.

The 'South America' issue isn't in the book.

(I believe the tourists are considered Japanese)

I found Commander Waterford's behaviour at the trial odd. He must surely be self aware enough to realise that advocating leniency was a bad move.

He said that thing though...'who among us hasn't sinned?' and they all nodded in the same smug, carefree way....maybe Fred knows they're all as corrupt and twisted as each other. After all, they must be pretty warped - they're the ones allegedly ruling Gilead.

Wow brilliant last episode

I loved that Waterford tried to dismiss Warren's crime but that the other commander was having none of it.

Live by the sword and die by the sword.

For all the self-imposed power the men have, I was struck by the influence Commander Putman's wife had on his punishment. The Commander his wife approached, the man who recruited Nick (sorry can't remember his name), seems to be absolutely faithful to Gilead and its vision. Indeed, when they were discussing the concept of handmaid's in the back of the limo during a flashback, he was the one who seemed opposed and likened it to treating the fertile women like cocubines if remember correctly?

I think when Waterford saw the reprecussions Putman's wife had, it may have caused him to fear Serena. Even his attempt to lord it over her in his study, stating that he was the 'boss' and ordering her to her room was ineffectual. Serena is very much the superior intelligence and presence in the couple. And he fucking knows it. One word from her and she could have his arm and another limb or two removed. He needs to be in her goodbooks and I think the penny dropped for him last night.

Maybe we will see women take control in series 2. Not necessarily a good thing if said power is only applicable to the Wives, but it would be interesting nonetheless. It can sometimes be assumed that a world run by women would be a peaceful and fair society. Neither concept would apply with women like Serena in charge. She is as ruthless as they come. They way she flaunted Hannah in June's face last night was one of the most hateful things I've ever seen. I caught myself afterwards and I was literally sitting with my hand clamped over my mouth.

It was announced last night we should see series 2 in April 2018. I really can't wait.

I have not seen a tv series that has me so hooked for many years. I always had trouble sleeping after it finished - didn't feel like fiction iyswim. An absolute masterpiece

The Waterfords seem like the kind to be Quiverful so would know when they had no success that at least one of them was infertile.

When June ask Fred to protect Hannah from from Serena, Fred was sceptical when June said you don't know her.

I think that and what happened at the trial really pricked him into self preservation. The thought that his angry wife could be dangerous and vindictive as June warned.

Just catching up on last nights episode (UK) I don't want to read the comments in case of a spoiler, but I didn't understand Fredas comment

"you bought lust and temptation into this household"

is this referring to June, a general view on females or something I've completely missed?

Watching Top of the Lake for Elizabeth Moss...

I have been utterly mesmerised - thank you all to your comments and links to add more colour to a wonderful series.

I have always had a bit of sympathy for Serena - finding her trapped in her own way, but what she did to June by bringing out Hannah was haunting. I felt physically assaulted by that scene and terrified for my daughter and generations to come. I'm also very nervous about what will happen to Hannah and whether the Waterfords will be able to take their revenge, or whether as a precious child she will be protected in some way from them (and the optimist in me hopes then rescued).

Fertility in the americas: if the infertility was in part caused by a nuclear explosion in California, would Mexico have been really badly affected but Canada less so? June and Luke lived in Boston which was also some distance from California.

Brilliant multifacted characters all the way through - brave Moira, Aunt Lydia who showed glimmers of compassion despite the cruelty of her acts, and the desperation that drove so many of the cast.

Bring on season 2!!

It was frightening. When you think women in Saudi and Afghanistan don't have it much better and yet the West says little and trades happily with them.

Yes thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, especially pp who had read the book and could explain the more confusing bits!

what she did to June by bringing out Hannah was haunting.

Yes it was harrowing to watch.

I can't remember if it states anywhere that Serena actually is infertile?

I did wonder whether she knew all along that it was Freds infertilitye that prevented her from getting pregnant. She isn't allowed to sleep with another man herself so she made sure June slept with Nick to get the baby she so desparately wanted.

Serena cried when Fred said they would be a family when the baby arrived. She knows they won't be a 'family'. Fred will carry on going to Jezebels. She will just be a woman caring for someone elses baby. In a warped way I think she is deeply jealous of June and the fact that Nick clearly cares about June and the baby. Serena was not happy when she saw June and Nick together.

I almost felt sorry for her when June was taken away. Serena is left with nothing. June at that split second had it all. Power, love and a baby in her belly.

The Waterfords are like those couples who seemingly have it all. But the underbelly reveals a dissonance that is cutting through the intimacy they once shared. A memory that is now distant and as barren as the head of the household.

Wow. Just caught up. It was so splendidly done.
Re books - has everyone read a thousand splendid suns? it always comes to mind for me.
Also - I was reading about some of the Yazidi girls who have escaped and gone mute or into deep States of sleep and it reminded me of the woman who escaped to Canada from the red centre with Luke.