The Handmaids tale

[DumbledoresArmy]

Anyone else planning on watching this at 9pm on channel 4?

"Is there a socially explained reason why the handmaidens can't/don't become wives?"

Toe my interpretation was that in Gilead sex now should only be for the purpose of procreation a la in scripture. Also there weren't enough handmaids for every ranking male, so they needed to be shared around.

Plus, as the ranking males were middle aged, or older, they already had wives and presumably in Gilead such a thing as divorce was forbidden.

I don't think you have to be a woman to get it. My male DP read the book many years ago, before I met him, and is enjoying the TV show as much as me (if that's the right word).

I think it's less to do with gender than with being ill-informed or a bit hard of thinking; as PPs have pointed out, it's not 'just' about women's rights –it could apply, and does, to anyone's civil rights and the consequences of the loss of them.

I thought June's friend in the flashback was a bit hard on Luke; 'I'll take care of you' is a totally normal thing to say to someone you love. I'D probably say that to my DP in that situation were the roles reversed. And then she growled at him for referring to June as 'my wife' –FFS, that's just how people refer to their spouses. That has been the only thing that felt heavy-handed to me.

For my money the scene where she tries to pay for coffee was the most powerful yet. I could easily imagine the guy behind the counter yelling, rather than 'Fucking sluts', 'Fucking P*kis' or 'Fucking fags' or something. Societies/pockets of society where it is 'OK' to hurl abuse at people over their identities are very much alive and kicking; all it takes is for those in authority, and the society at large, to set up and allow the conditions for those attitudes to flourish.

redrose....weren't you one of the posters earlier complaining about people who had read the book giving away spoilers ...sorry if you weren't .

You and the others are right about how people became wifes/handmaids/econowifes etc.

June and Luke's story is slightly more than he was divorced ...but that will come out in further episodes .
There is no mention in the book of commanders and wifes who already have children...i guess if you were a commander's wife and fertile you would be safe in your position.
If you were fertile and a wife of an ordinary man, and the regime could not find anyway to disgrace your relationship then i guess you got to stay together and get on with it...so far we haven't seen any econowifes but one presumes they were under the same restrictions but maybe allowed some more social interactions like the wifes.

The book as far as i recall does not explore what the real underlying motives of the regime is...is it just to produce babies from commanders to create a super race...or is it just to produce babies to safe the dying out population. If the former , one wonders what would happen to an econowife who produced a baby...would she be coerced into becoming a handmaid for a commander then ? maybe this is the kind of thing that might come up in the alleged sequel.

My understanding was that the econowives fulfilled all roles to their husband: wife, Martha, handmaid. Hence they wear stripy clothes.
I imagine they would be relatively safe as long as they followed the rules.

Reading some of the above posts made me think of an experience I had when I was a v young woman. I managed to get locked out of my flat, with the prospect of being locked out for the entire weekend. This was a Saturday morning and my flatmates were due back on Monday.

I had no money, just shoes and a dress.
I had no handbag - nothing in my hands when I got locked out.
I had no mobile phone - they were not widely available back then.
I had no telephone numbers
I had no friends living nearby
I had no family closer than 100 miles away
The internet wasn't prevalent

What I remember is the feeling of being utterly powerless - no information, no money, no possessions... It worked out ok in the end and I was only wandering the streets for a day (!), but it brought home to me how reliant we all are on the 'tools' of civilisation - information and purchasing power. My first steps were to borrow money (from a strange man) and head to a library. The handmaids are passive because, well, what else can they do?

redjelly

Nope. I did ask for one of my posts to be removed because it had spoilers in it. I read the book when I was 13 and have watched the full series so there's no spoiling me.

I also don't think my comments are spoilers - they're speculation. Noe of it is fully explained in the book, so it's just my interpretation.

my fullest apologies.....

I felt that we are veering near to explaining why June becomes a handmaid....and i recall that is explained in the book.

aghhhhh...it is hard when posters are asking questions...i want to go...'well in the book it happens like this...'

There is no mention in the book of commanders and wifes who already have children...

There's a brief reference to them during the birth, I'm re-reading the book & just spotted it.

"Not every Commander has a Handmaid: some of the Wives have children. From each, says the slogan, according to her ability; to each according to his needs.

I don't know, but I would guess that the next generation of Handmaids would be daughters of Econowives.

Just me then !😖

What would have happened to the second wife of a divorced commander, I wonder? Would she get to be a Wife? O)r were the Sons of Jacob too religious to let divorcees into upper echelons?

I guess what happens in future generations depends on what the cause of the infertility is (I don't think in the book it's ever specified - there are lots of potential causes including nuclear fallout).

If it's fallout from one particular nuclear disaster and the daughters of Commanders in the current generation are a) rigorously tested at birth for defects and b) raised far away from the radiation zones ('colonies') and with safe food, etc. there's no reason the next generation of Commanders shouldn't take (fertile) Wives from their own class and only those whose wives were infertile for 'normal' reasons would 'need' Handmaids.

If it's some sort of infertility-causing disease (started by radiation or hormones in the water system or whatever), there's more chance that the Daughters being born now will end up as unable to have children as their mothers were, and more Handmaids will be needed.

Had to share this message j just got from DH on his way home "what happened to the women who weren't married or fertile? Don't know why I am thinking about that - just am!"
Thought it would amuse you all. I've explained about the Marthas and the colonies and also said he will find out more!

What would have happened to the second wife of a divorced commander, I wonder? Would she get to be a Wife...

the book makes it clear the divorce is not recognised and second marriages are invalid...women who were second wifes...well if they were fertile they became handmaids , if they weren't i don't think the book said but guess they sent to colonies. As of course it was always the woman's fault that they were a second wife.

Upthread someone said that the commander was young - the actor is in his late 40s so perhaps he could be classed as "older". The actress playing his wife is in her mid 30s (same age as Elisabeth Moss).

Presumably in this case the commander married quite late and chose a much younger woman. Perhaps in this case, that would explain the wife's rage. He expected his much younger wife to get pregnant and she has had to live with his disappointment.

In the book I'd say the commander and his wife are 50s or early 60s, not 40s or younger.

Also, would prostitutes exist in this world?

I have an idea this is explored in the book, but nobody on this thread has mentioned or alluded to the bit I think I remember. Can't find the paperback - can anyone give me a hint so I know whether I imagined it or not?!

The reviewer from the Mail clearly didn't actually watch any of the series but - astonishingly - managed to get paid for writing a few lines that are way, way off the mark. Result for whoever, I suppose.

I've seen all 10 episodes and I didn't spot anymore about the reason June is a handmaid than to do with marriage to Luke, who is divorced and with whom she had an affair?

Gaven...it was June and luke's affair that I didn't want to mention...it's the reason they are so persecuted by the state.

It's kind of tortuous trying to avoid spoliers on this thread. Trying to answer questions that crop up without revealing anything to 'new' viewers puts me in mind of trying to avoid answering whether Elizabeth Bennett marries Mr. Darcy!
< spoiler alert - she does! >

< goes back to sitting on hands >

Apologies for repetitive use of 'trying'.

ah got you. is that in the book?

what episode is channel 4 on?

It has been years since I read the book, but I think Jezebel's was essentially a brothel wasn't it?

It actually reminded very much of geisha and tea houses though I know geisha aren't prostitutes obviously. But the way in which married Japanese men visit tea house to kick-back and get drunk with geisha who are considered a little outre and fun but then go home to their very proper wives and formal domesticity.

Same thing happens at Jezebel's I think?

what episode is channel 4 on?

We've had 3. This Sunday will be episode 4.

I've also watched episode 10, the whole first series. Can somebody tell me approx where that brings us up to in the book, or if that is the whole of the book? If that makes sense

It's the whole of the book bar the epilogue.