The Benefits Cap : is it working ? BBC 1 , anyone watching ?

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I'm preparing to feel quite depressed by it all,

But people on the sort of money mentioned aren't poor. It's a lot more than a lot of salaries and plenty for paying rent, bills, food and some luxuries in many parts of the country, even for larger families.

The woman with nearly £50k net - that's equivalent to what, a £70-80k salary. Almost no-one in Liverpool will earn that much and those who do, won't even get child benefit.

Sorry just noticed she's not the one in Liverpool, but she was being asked to pay £75 pw rent? That's nothing on her income and of course she should pay her rent out of her the fostering allowance. People who work, earn a salary and get no benefits use their salary to pay their housing costs, that's what you're supposed to do.

I know the programme used extreme cases, but they're not that rare, there's several families in my immediate circle whose benefits are or were above the cap and in the north they have the same amount or more money than many full time working professionals earning £30-40k.

I mean no spare cash for luxuries. I don't think that's cruel. Of course I'm not suggesting children go without clothes. But holidays are not a necessity.
Yes I would have liked a third child but could not afford one either.
The people shown were feckless, including Bruce. Volunteering is a luxury.

Agree with luggie why can't the rent be paid straight to the landlord?

I am sure they did this on purpose because if, as is often the case, people are bad at budgeting and they don't pay their rent, they make themselves intentionally homeless and then the Council don't have to re-home them - well, if they don't have children I suppose.

A winter coat is not a luxury - it's a necessity. As are shoes, school uniform, heating, etc.

Luxuries are Silver Cross prams, top of the range mobile phones (although every adult needs a mobile of some sort), booze, fags, nights out, trips to the cinema, holidays, etc, and I would argue that if benefits provide that level of support to people then they're too high. Benefits should pay for the basics, that's all.

However, I am very much opposed to the cutting of services like Sure Start centres, libraries, parks, etc. Sorting out benefits so they aren't a lifestyle choice and ensuring that work pays are widely supported and broadly good ideas, but our services in this first world nation should be the best. Good education for all, access to libraries and play equipment, parks that are free of litter and dog shit, world class mental health care, excellent healthcare, and enough council houses so that families aren't living in B&Bs or crammed into single rooms. People can't better themselves if they don't have access to those things.

The poorest people in this country often work, the tories have no interest in the lower working class either! Not making there lives any easier with NI rise

The cap doesn't apply to people who work though, and this program was about the cap.

Why can't they live on 20k (untaxable) income a year?, and why can't grandma understand that 29k is more than enough to afford the rent - although I think she is desperate for emotional support and I hope to God the show gave her that help that she needs.

"I need the kids to claim" no love you should WANT you kids back - all 7 not just 4. Oh and how is she getting away with speaking to the social services like that!

It would be more sensible to pay HB directly to LL and take it direct from their benefits. If families are made homeless kids more likely to end up in LA care which costs a fortune, not to mention the emotional damage done to children, or families placed in B&B's which is also costly and very bad for the kids. Lose, lose situation for everyone, including the tax payer

the way the woman with 7 children spoke to her social worker was shocking....
far more to her story than has been told here

the grandmother should have been told that she was allowed to use that money for household costs

I am sure the interviewer did tell her this at one point - but she wouldn't accept it and got very stressed. I do think that she really believes the £29,000 is for her grandsons' extra curricular (I think she used that term) activities. Her life would be easier if she understood and accepted she could use the money for their living expenses.

I think she is desperate for emotional support

This is very true - she really needs it.

I didn't see the programme and obviously there must be a distressing back story if a grandmother was fostering/had adopted her GCs and YY to needing emotional support, but isn't it a bit fucking obvious that the allowances paid for fostering as well as compensating for lost income/renumeration are to help with increased costs such as a bigger house for 4 DCs compared with that for one/two people, more food, probably more utilities, bigger car or extra public transport costs, clothing, beds, bedding and towels etc and everything else that we all need and cost more to provide for a large family compared to a couple/single person.

Is it really that hard to grasp that the £29k is to cover these costs as well as the fun/educational stuff?

She seemed to find it hard Barbara and was behind with her rent - which was with a HA and quite reasonable I think.

I ve just watched this on catch up.

The way that woman spoke to that social worker was disgusting!

I have noticed that these programmes only feature people with 4 children plus and how there is no more to go round.

Do people with 2 children struggle the same?

Money not more*

It would be a worthwhile exercise to do a follow-up program with these people, after they've had proper one-to-one budgeting, practical & emotional support & advice.

It was clear that their particular financial situations were not as catastrophically awful as they perceived them to be (especially the grandmother), but with no actual advice & support how can they ever truly be expected to manage?
It's not something you just magically realise - you learn these things - usually from your own parents etc but if you've not had this then you're set up to fail from the off.

I don't know how she could spend that much on extra curricular activities though?
Maybe she's saving the money for their futures.

My friend who has been subjected to the cap was able to save for her children, and still can, just less. I in no way begrudge her this as she's very astute with her money and the system allows it, and I'm actually proud of her for making the best choices for her children.

I've been thinking about this programme over the last few days. I actually think looking after children should be valued and renumerated for, for the contribution to society but it is clear to me that none of the people featured in this programme saw benefits of working beyond financial (most of whom would be worse off).
It's very sad to think that I'm guessing they have not had exposure to those of us who get enormous satisfaction from the jobs we do. I think it's our responsibility to show the next generation how fulfilling having a career/ job/ hobby can be.

Gplan, I think they would have been better if, it the single Dad had took the 20hr pw job he would have been £200 a week better of ...

I think the Grandmother knew perfectly well that the £29K wasn't just to pay for flipping treats for her grandsons. Of course she knew this.

But, she had been allowed to become incredibly cosy and comfortable, having everything handed to her on a silver platter, with every possible financial want and need totally met by benefits.

Now, the fact she has to find her own rent, and not take her grandson's ice skating quite so much, has severely pissed her off. So she is resorting to kicking off, throwing wild accusations and pointing the finger of blame at everyone else, because this behaviour has probably stood her in very good stead up until now.

But, now thank God the system has finally seen sense, and has realised how utterly she has been taking the piss, and is saying enough is enough.

I need to stop watching programmes like this because I'm turning into a Tory.

I do think 20k is a fair and realistic amount of benefits. I earn 7k less than this, don't claim tax credits and we manage really well. If a family learns to manage their money and gets reasonably priced accommodation it is more than enough to live on, there shouldn't be a need for food banks.

I think the main problem for people claiming benefits is the lack of secure and affordable housing, the lack of it is causing massive problems in society for everyone. Children need a secure home first and foremost.

I don't think it's very fair to say the grandmother has been 'taking the piss'. She has taken on her 3 (or was it 4?) grandchildren, she is 60 and the youngest child is three - so she will be at least 75 before she can take a break from caring responsibilities. Thing of the energy that would take at that time of life, how many people would be up for that? She doesn't seem to have a partner to help her with the responsibilities either. A loving and dedicated thing to do, and by caring for them herself she is also saving the state the high costs of foster care etc.

I didn't quite understand what her income would be before and after the cap, but the figure of (I think) £50,000 was mentioned. If true, this is a very healthy income (more than me and DH earn between us) and she should surely be able to pay the rent out of that. The kids need a roof over their heads more than they need ice skating lessons, etc! She needs someone to sit her down and explain it to her.

is it normal for kinship carers to get such a large amount of money for the entertainment of the children? i ask because i used to work with someone who had residency of her two grandchildren[their mother was severley mentally unwell] and she worked all hours just to provide a home for them other then any tax credits and child benefits she would be entitled too she didnt get anything elses.

I felt most sorry for the grandma, she looked completely knackered. I don't think many older people would want to take on 4 small children. I've heard grandmothers at work saying 1 day of the grandchildren and they're exhausted.

I do think that most of these people were picked because they make good telly. Although maybe the more sensible people refused to take part?

I was frustrated with the gran with the 4 boys. Of course the £29k should go towards the rent, as otherwise where would the kids be living? And without the kids she could live in a one bedroom place and go to work!