Unforgotten - ITV - starts Thursday October 8th at 9pm

[sadwidow28]

ITV’s six episode thriller series Unforgotten from former ITV drama executives Laura Mackie and Sally Haynes’ fledgling indie Mainstreet Pictures will premiere on Thursday October 8th at 9pm, it has been announced.

Penned by Undeniable scribe Chris Lang, Unforgotten tells the story of an 39 year old cold investigation into the murder of a boy who was killed in 1976. The modern day investigation is run by DCI Cassie Stuart and DI Sunil ‘Sunny’ Khan, who must re-examine the evidence and investigate the key suspects – Robert Greaves, Frank Philip Cross, Lizzie Wilton and Eric Slater – in order to close the case. The series utilises a multi-stranded narrative, set in different parts of the country, which explores and connects each of the principle characters.

The six-parter is produced by Mainstreet Pictures and features a large cast that includes Sanjeev Bhaskar (The Kumars), Nicola Walker (Last Tango In Halifax), Trevor Eve (Waking The Dead), Bernard Hill (The Grid), Ruth Sheen (Our Girl), Tom Courtenay (The Dresser), Gemma Jones (Marvellous), Brian Bovell (Death in Paradise), Cherie Lunghi (Casualty), Hannah Gordon (Hustle), Claire Goose (Mount Pleasant) Tamzin Malleson (Midsomer Murders), Peter Egan (Downton Abbey), and Frances Tomelty (Catastrophe). Ripper Street helmer Andy Wilson was the director.

cherrytree63

The key was stolen from the house on the night of the burglary at Mr Stephen J White's house. Nothing else was stolen.

Hmmm.... now you have got me thinking! Why would someone break into the house to only steal an original car key? Was it handed over as some sort of debt-payment and the burglary at Christmas 1975 was a set-up?

Cassie and Sunny asked why the car wasn't returned to the rightful owner when it was towed off the street in 1976 and taken to Islington Car Pound. The excuse is, "Nothing was cross-referenced at that time". It was sold on as scrap in 1977.

I must have missed the bit where the key was stolen. Curious that it was a single key, no keyring or other keys with it.

The80sweregreat

Thank you for your kind wishes regarding my deceased brother. I was only sharing the story to show that closure, however it is found, is so important.

When the police came to my door at 10.20am they said that a body had been found at the top of the road. (My heart stopped because I had walked the dog until 10pm the night before trying to find where my brother was. His phone was ringing - but no answer.) I invited the police in and then checked that they had said "a body" rather than "an injured person". So this person who had been found was really deceased. Yes - he was clearly walking home and didn't make it. The area was cordoned off and traffic diverted - it was the talk of the neighbourhood. I didn't leave my home until I was collected by 2 very supportive police officers at 5.30pm (non-uniform as I requested, and un-marked car parked further down the road as I also requested). I didn't want the press who were congregated at the top of my road to find my residence.

I was driven to the morgue at a local hospital and formally identified my DB. I had already told the police officers that IF it WAS my brother, I would need to touch him and kiss him one last time. I promised I wouldn't interfere with the body which had just been released post-autopsy. I was allowed to go through the locked door and have a few moments with my DB. I think my words were: "Oh S, what have you done to yourself now? But no more pain my lovely - it's all over" (He was an alcoholic who couldn't recover even though he had been released from a 5th rehab session just 6 days before.)

But I needed the police photos and witness statements for my closure. I needed to understand. I assured the Detective Inspector leading the case that I wouldn't be freaked out (my late-DH had been a police inspector in the next county). So I was shown 40 photos taken by the coroner (all in a little album with numbers). I chose 2 to scan to send to my siblings who also needed closure. I signed the back of the photos to say they had been copied (I knew we had to keep up the line of custody) and all was well.

So Chris Lang got the Maureen/Cassie visitation to Arlingham House so correct IMO. I applaud him!

Open

Very convenient that Carol now lives abroad...........

But does Slater's wife's sister, Carol live abroad or is she underneath the patio?

Hope you don't mind me joining in, love the programme and all the comments here. Had a thought, do we know the name of Frankie's wife? Could that be Joanna?

Frankie (Sir Philip) Cross's wife's name is Shirley.

So far the only one to actually know Jo Jo (Joanna), is Father Robert Greaves (who is an Anglican priest, who had a brief affair with a Joanna, and aged her 20). Father Bob rang 'Jo Jo' in the second episode and is involved in some sort of money pilfering re the parish accounts.

UNFORGOTTEN - Epsisode 3

Cassie comes down and looks at the box of letters (from Clive to her mother Elizabeth) - she goes to work.

Lizzie (at just gone 7am) enters their bedroom and says to Ray: ”I need to tell you something”

No details of Vincent Eskine staying at Arlingham House (Cassie said “he may have ‘hung out there’. If he was going out with Elizabeth and encountered Jimmy then.) Karen has managed to find the person who he and Elizabeth assaulted. He’s happy to talk to police.

Sunny says: “Good work Jake”

[Is this a person with a score to settle? Is he truthful?]

Cassie to Sunny: “How do you think a person lives a life having murdered someone without it showing? A whole life of relationships without anyone suspecting that they did that it’s.... ..just beyond awful. How does that happen?”

Lizzie to Ray:

• I didn’t move to London when I was 17. I moved 2 years earlier when I was 15
• I lied to you about this because I wanted you to have a relationship with Dad
• Whatever he’d done he was still my father

Lizzie was sexually abused by her father from aged 12 yrs to 15 yrs. When Lizzie spoke out to her Aunt, Lizzie was told that she would be imprisoned for her wicked lies. She ran away from home and spent 1 year on the streets “keeping warm from drinking cider”.

She met a man called Vincent who was bigger/stronger than anyone else. He promised love and looking after. But he wasn’t a good person. He made Lizzie think, say and do things who she wasn’t really.

[Note that Lizzie says she DID things - not just say or think! What is it that she DID?]

Callmesausage

We love people joining in! You are so welcome. This is a complex case and we have to crack the clues.

But we also love people commenting on scenes - either good or bad.

We chat on here for a whole week after an episode because we are trying to spot the clues or gearing up for what we are looking out for. It is great fun!

Oh lots of good detecting from everyone! I was trying to think who Sir Phillip (Frankie) Cross reminds me of, apart from Sir (Lord) Alan Sugar. His background has a whiff of the Frankie Fraser about it, with the involvement in organised crime and torture.

UNFORGOTTEN - Epsisode 3

Father Rob Geaves

• Remembers Jimmy very well
• They bonded over football (Jimmy Liverpool/ Fr Rob Hoops - QPR)
• Father Rob often wondered what happened to him

MORE FLASHBACKS

• Fr Rob first met Jimmy because church was just around the corner from Arlinham House
• There were a lot of lost souls and we [church]’ tried to give succour to them
• Jimmy had issues
• On the whole Jimmy was ‘rather full of life; a real character’

[Cassie asks about friends and those he associated with]

• Father Rob says he ‘knew him, but not well’
• Jimmy came to services (but more to tell his mother he attended),
• Fr Rob knows nothing about his day-to-day life

[Sunny asks if Jimmy had any race-related problems]

• “No” (and Mumsnet says that ‘No’ is a full sentence )
• But Fr Rod is sure that there were issues - it was the 70s

[Sunny asks about the name Vincent Eskine - that’s Lizzie’s boyfriend when she was 15-17 yrs old]

• “Hmmmmmmm....No”

[Sunny asks if Fr Rob knows Beth Laws - that’s Lizzie Wilton’s maiden name]

• “Erm..that rings a very vague bell. But no [shrugs[ not really.”

[Sunny asks if Fr Rob knows a Frank or Frankie Cross]

• “Nope. Sorry, I’m not being very helpful am I?”

[Sunny the says “Jo-Jo?”]

• Father Rob says, “No, Sorry. Why/ Who was she?”

[Who said that Jo-Jo was female? Cassie and Sunny know that Fr Rob is covering something up!]

I loved the way that Sunny used his teenage-daughters' language to tell Cassie that he was suspecting Fr Rob.

"As Aisha would say: 'Oh my God! He sooooo knows Jo-Jo'"

[Sunny is a single dad to 2 teenage girls - Gemma and Aisha]

Lizzie tells Ray:

"I swear, no matter what else I did, I DO NOT remember this boy."

Lizzie, Lizzie, pants on fire - we have the screen shots from episode 2.

Now tell the troof!

UNFORGOTTEN - Episode 3

Sir Philip (meeting with Bella - his daughter)

Bella: Why would you tell me and not her?

SirP: She’d worry. All I want is advice. [We assume this is a reference to Shiela - wife]

Bella: As a daughter? Or a lawyer?

SirP: As a lawyer - before I speak to my own.

Bella: So did you know him?

SirP: Yes.

Bella: And you said you didn’t because.....?

SirP: I don’t know. It was stupid. I have nothing to hide.

[Liar, liar pants on fire!]

Sir P [Frankie C] explains that Jimmy was ‘a face’ who ran a few errands for the people he worked for. Bella asks who they were. Sir P says “A family called the Fenwicks”.

[Of course this isn’t just an ordinary family, it is a FAMILY/MAFFIA-TYPE group who are running an area in London.

We already know that the phone entry in Jimmy’s diary to Frankie C is actually registered to Gordon Fenwick. Now, I think Jimmy was working for the Fenwick Family as well because of the Frankie C/Fenwick telephone number in his diary. Was Frankie C Jimmy’s handler?

Bella: Who were?

SirP: Not as pure as the driven snow.

Bella: And what did you do for them?

SirP: What I needed to. To earn my way out of a house with no running water. I know NOTHING.... about what happened to this young man”

Bella: Say nothing. Do nothing. Let them prove you lied.

[Liar, Liar, pants on fire! We’ve saved your flashbacks SirP. You are about to be brought in front of the Mumsnet jury! Confess now or take your comeuppance. We watched episode 3 where we learned you were one of the ‘muscle men’ for the Fenwicks. You used bolt cutters to cut off the digits of each finger - going from joint-to-joint - until the tortured person gave in or died.

Did you hit Jimmy with your bolt cutters? Was it YOU who caused the blunt force trauma and smashed his skull?]

Wow, sadwidow thanks for that.

If Frankie C was Jimmy's handler, what had he done for him to be "done in"?

I think several were involved in this, someone upthread said that it was like Agatha Christie 10 Little Indians. Even if they didn't all murder him, they know. But if it was in an atmosphere of organised crime, I suppose people learnt to turn a blind eye.

I have loads more to post but I don't like chatting to myself!

I do that every day when the Ddog doesn't answer me

When Fr Rob has his 2nd lot of flashbacks (and a panic attack at the BBQ) his memory is of Jimmy being a 'thug' and hitting him:

FLASHBACKS - EPISODE 3 - FATHER ROB

[It appears that Jimmy isn't squeaky clean. Perhaps he has the same values as Sir P when it comes to 'working for the Firm'. Has anyone got any theories about this?]

Honestly....blow me down with a feather! I don't know who this person is who transcribes TV programmes, but s/he is pretty fast at uploading.

I doff my cap to him/her

Unforgotten - transcript of episode 3

Elendon - the thought had crossed my mind that Carol being abroad is a cover up.

Is Eric's wife the actress who played Rene Zellwegger's (oops!) mother in Bridget Jones' Diary?

Yes it's Bridget's mum. I'm bloody loving this show, it's so clever, and so non shouty.

Genius acting from all, but Yosser Hughes is amazing. I'm still sympathising with him even after the sex revelations. He made it sound so sad and pure, and he wasn't that much older than her at the time.

Hannah Gordon saying fuck has made my life complete. Can't quite get my head round the greiving mum being Sting's ex, I'll away and Google some images.

When she said "That wasn't me", I believe her.

But there was that interview with someone who was attacked by Lizzie/Beth and her boyfriend who made it clear that she was very racist in her own right.

Just read half of this thread (I am only up to episode two). What a brilliant thread sadwidow.
I have missed many of the clues you all have found. Teenage DS does like to watch a good drama with me but will eye roll if I dare to admit I don't understand what's going on. .
Will come back and read on when I am up to date.

GruntledOne

I see what you are saying. I was looking for physical violence, but you are correct that her hatred was very real and abusive in a different way - and she did it when her boyfriend/the gang weren't there.

It was the newspaper shop owner who confirmed that Beth was not as physically violent as Erskine was. But the things she said, the sheer hatred from such a young girl, shocked him. (Cassie says that Beth said she had tried to stop the attack and was coerced). Newspaper shop owner says she’s lying. Beth egged Erskine on all the way and then, when they left, it was her, not Erskine, who spat on him.

Who's Carol and why is she abroad?

Folks, I am missing the point of Carol. I haven't a clue what you are discussing so .......HELP!

I know Les Slater said that Carol was in America, but I don't know who Carol is. Is she Claire's sister? Or is she Les' wife? I seriously can't remember her being mentioned before.

brilliant x-post there Fiderer

I am glad I am not the only one.