Meet the Mormons

[MiloSimpson]

Is anyone watching this? I'm a little bit to be honest. I've realised that I know v little about the religion.

I smoked, drank, smoked hash, was cohabiting, drank tea, didn't attend any church etc.. Until 2 lovely missionaries called to my door. One was from Idaho and the other was Scottish. I got baptised 8 months after and I have never gone back or been tempted to go back to any of my habits.

Maybe that was the idea behind the programme all the mammies will be feeling sorry for the poor boys and will invite them in for a chat :-)

Here's a list of 10 warning signs.

1 Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2 No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3 No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4 Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5 There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6 Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7 There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8 Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
9 The group/leader is always right.
10 The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

The mormon church certainly fits most of the above. I would like to point out that the church's financial records are not available in the US - they see no need to publish them!

Yes it's been very hard - I had spent the best part of my life in this belief system, and when I left I had to discover exactly who I was, and build myself as a person free of the mormon 'programming' IYSWIM.

My mormon relatives were disbelieving that I was formally leaving, and lovebombed me for a while. When they realised that it wasn't working, they decided to shun me. It's been nigh on 14 years now, not a word.

Tapirbackrider,
You sound very matter of fact about it.

Why do you think they spend so much time trying to convert others? Do you think it is money led, or is the motive mroe pure?

I am genuinely interested, as, throoughout my life, I have lived next door to mormons, and also worked with a mormon, so am interested.........

I have never heard of a family disowning their child for leaving the church. My best friends have 3 children who don't attend in fact there are probably more who have children who don't attended than those who do.

Sorry Tapir,
My reply 'jumped' yours.

Well done for being 'Yourself'.
It must have been REALLY tough to stand your own ground and be your own person.
Stay Strong!
(sounds corny, but I mean it).

It just goes to show how easily people can become brainwashed (I think I am an ideal candidate!!!! They were staring to convince me).

Once again-
You sound like you are an amazing person. Strong as well.
I think you have done the right thing.
Don't get sucked back in - whatever happens.
You have come this far!

Any religion that has to have so many rules and regulations lends itself to questioning.

Audrina I'm very active in a number of groups involved with questioning/former mormons. Many have been divorced by their partners for leaving, lost custody of children, shunned by families, lost jobs. We average half a dozen suicides each year in the young LGBT mormon community that I work with, because of the anti-gay sentiments in the church. Proposition 8 and the church support for it is something that springs to mind.

Water. I'm matter of fact about it because I've spent the time since leaving coming to terms with what was, and what I want for my life, rather than doing what I was taught to do.

At the basic level, converting people puts you on god's good side...

Also worth adding at this point - the church membership figures count everyone who is an active church goer, every unbaptised child of the active members, and all inactive members up to the age of 110.

Thanks water.

I watched it last night, and cried. I think it was for all those years I spent attempting to conform, in trying to obey all the rules (and there are loads), the wasted time. I still knew all the words, remembered all the music.

Also worth noting that this week, the mormon church excommunicated a faithful member for advocating equal rights within the church - which I thought was a tad hypocritical considering that Joseph Smith had given women priesthood powers back in the founding days of the church.

Sorry you had such a bad experience. My own was much different in that I spent the best part of a year investigating the church. I read all the anti, pro and apologetic literature I could find but was unable to make my mind up from that as for every piece of information I could find disproving or saying something negative about the church I was able to find a corresponding piece which backed up what the church was saying. In the end I went with how I felt when the missionaries taught me and how my life improved when I started practicing the principles that were being taught to me. I guess I might have been unusual in that even still i find the concept of god and jesus hard to internalise and get my head around. I knew about the history of the church before I got baptised so went in with my eyes open. There have been no surprises. At my most skeptical it reminds me of a McDonalds franchise. I do notice however that a lot of ex members hold quite a lot of anger towards the church and are quite vocal in knocking it. I have a few fb friends who have gone from being staunch members to talk any opportunity to knock it. As I said earlier I have been in active for about 8 months but still socialise with members, accept visiting and home teachers, and don't have any hard feelings towards the church. My experience of it was mostly positive. Hope you get to the stage where it doesn't cause you any pain or negative feelings. Take care :-)

Yes, I agree - a lot of former members are angry towards the church. They feel angry because they've given all that they had, all that they were to serving, and then found out that they were lied to. It's a hard thing to internalise the message that no matter how hard you try, you're still not quite doing enough, giving enough.

If I get ripped off, maybe buying a car, or in a shop, I will tell people about it, I will complain, and I am right in doing so. Nobody likes to be cheated or lied to, and it's human nature to want to warn others against doing the same thing. It's the same with former Mormons.

I'm glad that it's helped you, there's a lot of good in this church, but just so you know - visiting & home teachers are visiting to keep an eye on you, and regularly report back to the bishopric about such things as the state of your home, whether you're speaking warmly or angrily about the church, if they see alcohol or cigarettes. It's not quite spying on you, but they want you back attending - it reinforces their belief in mo'ism.

I wish you all the best in your journey.

It's very sad to see so many negative and attacking comments about the church on this discussion thread. To see something so dear to me, so beautiful and good, be torn down in such a manner. I really don't understand why people would do such a thing; to attempt to destroy what's good. Either it's a misunderstanding or evil vindictiveness. I'm a convert to the church of approximately 10 years and it has taught me many wonderful lessons. I've met so many good people in the church who bring so much good to society.
The first step to reconciliation between two parties is understanding. There seems a distinct lack of understanding from some on this discussion thread and more of an attempt to attack and belittle. Very childish and very unfortunate.

regards,

Simon

Saintbon - you cannot accuse people of belittling your views, and then belittle them by calling them childish.

SDT, sorry you are correct I shouldn't of used the words childish for a child would not be so vindictive. I do not intend to belittle anyone. I respect any other persons own beliefs and I believe we should all do the same. All I ask for is understanding and dialogue. I hoped that this was to be a discussion about the church and its beliefs; to give me an opportunity to show people what I honestly believe in. I then see people entering the discussion without any provocation on any others part and start attacking the church and its beliefs. WHY? Why so much hatred?
regards,

Simon

Re - 'a child would not be so vindictive' - it was bullying from children (from the age of 10) that made me suicidal by the time I was 14, so forgive me if I do not believe that statement.

It's a shame that the understanding only goes one way - towards hiding the facts, and using ad hominems to silence any view not favourable to the church.

In stating our personal experiences, we don't attack, we explain. The facts are there to be found, and when members insult and attempt to verbally abuse those who know these facts, then they shine a light on themselves and the church that does not reflect well.

If you would like a discussion about the church and its beliefs, then I'm happy to do so. Be warned though, there are things that you may not wish to know.

I'm watching it now. I have no time or respect for a religion that actively separates families. In fact I have no time for religion full stop. It's just all a bit 'I'm going to heaven and you're not.'

I hope the documentary maker sneaked him her mobile so he could call his mum

The poor young man looked exhausted

It would have been interesting to see what his family were going through at the other end

Simon I've just read the whole thread, and don't see much in the way of belittling/attacking

to me it seemed like reasonable people having a balanced discussion. Props to everyone, on both 'sides'

I do not intend to belittle anyone. I respect any other persons own beliefs and I believe we should all do the same. All I ask for is understanding and dialogue. I hoped that this was to be a discussion about the church and its beliefs; to give me an opportunity to show people what I honestly believe in.
Well start a discussion then, Simon. As I said earlier I watched the programme and didn't really feel any the wiser about the Church's beliefs by the end. It did seem very comfortingly 1950s and safe with everything set out for believers, which could be an attraction for some people.

Sorry if you feel there is an element of vindictiveness and attacking on this thread simon. I agree with SpringHeeledJack that it is a discussion with people expressing their opinions, concerns, experiences. Unless you are on a Mormon discussion group, you will come across views that are very different to your own and questions and concerns about aspects of the faith that people find worrying.

I certainly don't want to attack or be vindictive but my views on religion are very different to yours. I am glad that your faith gives so much to you and to other people you know, but not everyone is going to feel so positive about it.

You misunderstand. As one of our church's creeds states, 'We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may'.
You are free to worship whatever it is you choose to worship and I ask for the same privilege. I'm sure you agree.
Of all the accusations made against the church during this discussion thread I have not witnessed in my own membership of the church. I feel there is a great misunderstanding about the church but I also feel there are certain elements who seek to attack.
From my experience, since being baptised into the church back in 2004 I have grown closer to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Church is a place where I go to learn of Jesus Christ and make commitments to follow Him and keep His commandments. I strive my best to be like Him, to love my fellow man and overcome my sins. It's a beautiful thing.
I invite you to study the words of the leaders of the church or better still attend a sacrament service at a local ward in your area. Hear what's being taught there and decide for yourself. Look at the church website at www.lds.org/?lang=eng to see what is being taught. I think you'll find that it is all good. Judge for yourself.

all the best

No-one on this thread is "attacking" you or the Mormon church. We just disagree with you.
I was a very active member for thirty years, I recognise a testimony bearing Mormon when I encounter one. You cannot realistically expect to put your point of view forward and have no-one disagree. Our experiences are as valid as yours. If ex members are "bitter" you might ask yourself why.
I believe through my own and my family's experience that the Mormon church is a multi-billion organisation masquerading as a church. It is mysoginistic and racist. It enables abusers and blames victims. It is a wolf in sheepskin clothing, which is why it carefully controls its public image.

Sheepskin! Well-dressed wolves...

Simon - you sought this thread out, you complain about the conversation - and call us childish - and you think that this somehow encourages us to attend the church?

Umm, no.

Simon I don't think I misunderstand at all. Everyone's opinions, views, experiences and beliefs or lack thereof, are every bit as valid as yours' If someone has had one experience, that doesn't mean someone else who has had a very different one, is wrong or on the attack. If people are free to worship wherever, however and whatever they want, then it seems churlish to then call those who don't worship in the way you do, vindictive or say they don't understand what you're about.

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't worship whoever or whatever you want. What you believe and how you believe is entirely your choice. Just don't expect every one else to see things from your point of view. That's not realistic.

Why are you following the teachings of a man? Why are you not just reading the Bible? What made this man so much better at interpreting the Bible than you or I or anyone else? OK, he might have been persuasive being a fraudster an' all, but that probably meant he had a more twisted mind too, and was certainly not as honest as I am (or you for that matter). So why follow what he said in the first place?