Panorama - I want my baby back

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Anyone watching?

This promoting of the idea that SS want to steal babies makes me very uneasy...

But like with a lot of these cases - if the courts were more open and released facts then less wrongs would have happen and more rights.

A 12 year old sleuth can access supposed secret data online so it's about time the courts realised this and moved into the 21st century.

@spero No - a friend of mine is a midwife. OK?

Ok, how about one little question then?

Do you think it should have been dealt with by the uk, or do you think she should have been sent home to be sorted out there?

But then there aren't many wrongs according to you. I'll ask Sally Clark what she thinks. Oh wait a minute...

My only take on the whole Italian woman thing is that if she was sectioned for a 'mild panic attack' as she maintains then she should have gone home way way before the birth. I'm told that section 2/3s dont happen for mild panic attacks - so that's down to facts not being known.

There's a couple of other things - Hague convention blah blah blah - and truth has not been reported correctly re care at Chelmsford as far as Im aware.

Truth will out - think the case has still further to run yet

wizard pic - we can link you to the judgments if you like. She wasn't sectioned for a mild panic attack. She was seriously mentally ill, had been for decades and had a history of not taking her medication.

Proof that a lie goes round the world before the truth can put its boots on eh.

Hi all, I watched this yesterday and have read some of this thread and also some of the one in adoption. I'll admit I don't know much about either the medical side of things, or (thankfully I think) family courts. However I decided to rewatch it today to try and understand it all a bit more.

I'm literally a couple of minutes in, and already confused. Jill (the lady in Spain) is filmed it looks like she's still on the maternity ward) and she says that she had to hand in her passport before she could leave hospital. Then they say that she had the baby in Spain. If he was born in Spain, who exactly did she have to give her passport to and why?

Sorry watching it again i have no idea why I thought she's in the mat ward, there's nothing to.suggest that! Still.don't understand the passport thing though!

Wizard you are correct the Italian woman's case wasn't properly reported - I don't suppose you remember who told all of the press she had her baby 'snatched'? Yes, your mate JH. I wonder if you may realise he also doesn't know what he is talking about and perhaps can see, from this once incident alone how damaging his scaremongering was in this case? And yet you still seem to think he has all of the OTHER answers... Fool me once...
Personally, I dont want to live in a society where you can be sent to jail without a jury or access to a solicitor as in wanda maddocks case.
So you admit having a SOLICITOR is important in Court cases and other 'influential' people who are not qualified in the law or child care should not be telling scared parents not to trust these professions?

Personally, I dont want to live in a society where you can be sent to jail without a jury or access to a solicitor as in wanda maddocks case.

It was established at the time that the only reason Wanda Maddocks was unrepresented in court was because she chose not to turn up when summonsed.

@spero what you need to accept - because you are clearly wrong - is that there are many more cases than you are aware of of where children have been wrongly adopted.

Takes me back to the question I have asked several times without receiving an answer. What is your evidence for this?

There is no evidence, clearly.
Wizard knows this and yet is still trying to say he isn't a conspiracy theorist.
Those pesky headscarf wearers though, spreading lice through our lovely family homes up and down the country...tut.

I'll just explain why I asked, just in case I cant get back - real life getting in the way.

Two women have issues with social services in their home countries
Both leave their home country with baby (born or in utero)

Woman 1 - opinion of many is that the baby should be sent back to home country, even if to be put into care system in that country
Woman 2 - opinion of same people as those in ^ that. She did the right thing, baby should stay in expat country, absolutely anything is better than baby entering the care system

@spero - I said I knew more about the case. It was reported that it was a mild panic attack. That may or may not be true. However, being sectioned means you must (hopefully) be seriously mentally ill and, one assumes, trying to harm yourself. She contests this and others have too -so the facts of what the panic were need to be ascertained.

My knowledge comes from later events. Not taking your medication wouldnt necessitate taking to hospital if you werent a danger or acting in a dangerous way. So, when I see evidence of precisely what occurred I will feel more comfortable.

you guys are just not accepting that there are cases of wrongful adoption - lots of them. Thats why people are going public or fleeing the country.

Problem will not get solved by being ostriches. And, eventually, something drastic will happen as a result.

Draws a weird parallel with the "all immigrants into britain are bad", "expats leaving britain are okay". Rather hypocritical.

There used to be a male poster who posted mainly on the legal pages regarding children in care, fathers being denied access and similar subjects.

There was always a very skewed view of the world and most importantly the british legal system. His apparently logical and 'intelligent' posts were echoes of Wizards posts on this subject, which has derailed a sensible debate and which has descended into an Alice in wonderland non reality of conspiracies and deceptions.

He always gave himself away by prefacing his posts with @

I think he was chased off legal!

to whichever person asked. Personally, I believe the Italian baby should be repatriated to Italy. The child is not British. As we eventually did with the Slovak children that nearly caused an international incident and featured on Slovak TV. The UK caved in in the end. As I said, the system is getting bad press all round.

What occurred is all set out in the judgments. Which have been published and can be read by anyone.

the phrase 'panic attack' was Bookers. It was a lie. She did not have a 'panic attack'. She was very mentally unwell.

Her two elder children do not live with her because of her mental illness.

Despite earlier jokes I really don't feel up for a rehash of the 4,000 posts.

I believe what I believe based on my knowledge and experience of the child protection system from 1999 to date. I am fully prepared to change my mind if you can show me where I am going wrong.

But if John Hemming can't find me any evidence, I guess it is naive to think that you can.

I had better go to bed now as even my enthusiasm is now waning.

I have not been on these forums before

well then - explain how she was severely mentally unwell - reports said at the time police got to her she resting on her bed. What exact;y was she doing to display this very serious mental unwellness?

That is my only conern in this case - and that she recovered in three weeks in Italy whereas she remained ill in the UK and potentially treated for the wrong problem.

No where on this thread has anyone denied wrongful adoptions happen We want to know your figures and facts that you have stated you have.

Something dramatic happened with Baby P.

People are responsible for their own families, but hopefully what this thread is making clear is that you listen to a man with an axe to grind with SS making up scaremongering stories for the media, you are not getting a full view of realistic events.

Sadly a lot of people think MP's are intelligent and have usually a good reason (facts figures or a relevant qualification) to attack something so vigorously. Also many people read the papers and trust that they are reporting the truth. As you yourself admitted this was not the case where JH was involved recently.

Another side needs to be told, but the media only want the juicy bits, and so the public at large is being presented with skewed information. That is not helpful to anyone.

Wizard I suggest you read the other thread if you want the actual details on the Italian woman. The one where JH posted the names and DOB's of vulnerable children because he felt threatened and wanted to flex his MP muscle.

seen it - not too interested in that case. My only question was/is - what was she actually doing at the time she was spoken to by the police that led to being detained? Dancing? Cutting herself? It's my only bugbear about the case. And I believe the child should be repatriated.

I am my own worst enemy.

you want an explanation as to how she was seriously unwell?

Read the judgment.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/re-aa-approved-judgment.pdf