Sherlock episode 2 thread!

[Allthingsprettyreturns]

Who is with me?

Mary is NOT a wrong 'un. This is like the Saul Dilemma on the Homeland threads .

I liked it, although I accept it was a bit self-indulgent. Good fun once it got going though.

I tell you what was bugging me though: where have I seen the actress who played the rather saucy-looking maid before?

Would the young Holmes brothers have indulged in Dungeons and Dragons or other role playing games (at least I think that is what DP meant!)? It may have involved interacting with other people so perhaps not? Although given SH's encyclopaedic knowledge of - stuff - then you're right it should have occurred to him before the wedding reception.

Where was he, anyway, when he was creeping around the barracks? Feel that might be something that crops up again in ep 3.

In terms of murdering another soldier - are we expected to assume that the murderer sees a single soldier as collateral damage, worth it for the greater "good" of seeking revenge on behalf of the many?

What is clear is that he needed a victim in that dress to understand how long his method may take to work and how successful it could be...

That's the lady I was talking about up thread. She's been in loads but used to be much bigger. She's lost loads of weight. She was in titty bang bang, psychoville, also in one of the doctor who Christmas specials. She also used to have long dark hair too. She looked so different though it was hard to place her.

Ah the Homeland threads suspect Saul? Must check it out, I've thought that for a while...

Mary may not be the big bad (assuming that's Troels LM) but I do think she is part of it - either willingly or no...

And Debbie Chazen- yes looks so different now. She was Annie in The Smoking Room, too.

Oh yes! Foon van Hoff! Really didn't recognise her!

Maybe Mary is related to the big bad? That's why the telegram mentioned her family? Maybe he's her brother or something? Not saying she's a baddie though, but I think something has gone on in her past.

Mrs Hudson's line about not knowing her husband - foreshadowing, I tells ya!

Wintera - yes and they have a showdown and Watson has to choose who to save? And then she says something like I'll always take care of you (reminding us of sherlocks crap wedding speech) and takes the bullet?

Oh. It just occurred to me. Could we be looking at The Bloody Guardsman all wrong? Could the Guardsman himself have been involved in the plot in order to help prove it would work on Watson's ex-CO? Perhaps he or one of his superiors (the man who found him in the shower) was in on the plot to get revenge on the ex-Co on behalf of all those young recruits who died? So it was not luck that Holmes and Watson were there to save him - it was in fact planned that way??

Really looking forward to next weeks episode. Liked last nights a lot

YY teejwood, why if you are devastated about the death of your brother -an innocent young soldier -and his young inexperienced comrades after they were apparently negligently led into danger by a senior officer who was the only survivor, why oh why would you have no qualms about offing another young innocent soldier just like your dead bro and his comrades as practice?

Makes no psychological sense whatsoever.

rusty most of dh Xmas presents came from red bubble this year

Wintera I noticed that too about the titty titty bamg bang lady.

I do think that Mary is playing Sherlock in the fact that all the clues regarding her pregnancy were deliberatly made in Sherlocks presence and were very.obvipus rather than subtle

giraffes, the murderer wouldn't necessarily have known what happened to the first victim as his 'death' and Watson saving his life all took place within the barracks; he wasn't there.

Loads of people take photos of the poor guardsmen all the time –they showed this in the episode. It's not really drawing attention to himself at all; it's more like hiding in plain sight.

Re: killing an innocent man, I think he was so unbalanced by his grief and desire for revenge that he didn't see the guardsman as a person but just as someone wearing the right clothes for him to practise his technique on. Again, the episode sort of pointed this up by showing the tourists posing for photos with him but not interacting with him in any way. In a less murderous way, they were just as oblivious to him as a human being and were only concerned with what they wanted out of him (in their cases, not revenge but some cool holiday photos).

I don't see why he needed to take photos of him in all those situations (I can understand wanting to document the uniform). It seemed more a way of showing that the guy had lots of cameras and knew how to use them and signposted the photographer

A bit like the very first episode - the taxi shots were so unnecessary that it basically told you who the murderer was from the beginning. I assumed it was going to be a Colombo style show!

Stressy, maybe he was working out the best location to do it – where the guardsman and the 'murderer' himself would be best concealed.

The taking lots of photos thing can be explained by the fact that any members of the public standing round a guardsman almost by definition have a camera; you'd look more conspicuous and attract more suspicion if you hung around one and weren't taking photos.

I loved it.

I do want to know what Mary is lying about though - I spotted the LIAR word straight away when watching the first episode and rewound it to check. It would be very unlike Sherlock not to pick up on it. I wonder if he has been quietly investigating having learned lessons from doing everything so publicly with Moriarty.

I am surprised at the people saying his self-awareness is not right. He is supposed to be ridiculously clever, is able to read people and deduce things. It does not surprise me that he is aware of how people see him.

As a sociopath, he may not be able to understand why people see him that way, or even care, let alone want to change but he would be more than capable of knowing that they do see him that way and would accept it unless he received information to the contrary. He lacks empathy, awareness!

I don't like Mary, I find her intrusive, slipped into the relationship too easily. She's bugging me No chemistry between her and John.

Nora, I can't decide whether I think Mary is a liar about something Very Significant and Plot-Changing, or just about liking John's moustache

Re Sherlock's self-awareness, I agree. He has also had two years away to reflect on his life, plus he made references in the best man speech to how John helps and saves him, meaning, I think, that John is helping him to gradually become more 'human'. And John says at one point 'Remember we talked about the showing-off thing?', indicating that they do talk about Sherlock's behaviour; presumably this also contributes to Sherlock's growing awareness.

I think it's believable and interesting character development, although I do kind of miss the ultra-otherworldly, abstracted Sherlock of the first series. Benedict nailed that perfectly.

recall, the way that Mary is so smoothly integrated makes me suspect that she's been planted; to do that you'd need to be expert at inveigling yourself into other people's trust and affections.

I really like Mary and love the fact that she's not "come between" Sherlock and Watson, but strengthened them in a way. Sadly TV being what it is I don't think they'll let such a strong and funny female character go on long, let alone a healthy relationship dynamic. A real pity as I think Sherlock going back to being a sole agent on the surface while popping round to John and Mary's to "consult" or drag them out at a moment's notice would be great.

What actually happened to Mary's family? My guesses: a) she is responsible for their deaths in some way, possibly when a child (Christie loves the violent child = violent adult theme) b) she is related to this Magnusson person and has tried to start a new life away from him c) it was clever but I've forgotten it, something to do with power over her that would make her agree to harm Sherlock.

What do you think?

was Mary in a Malteser advert with her sister ?

I bet Mary gets killed off in the very near future.

As a proper Sherlockian can I make the following point?

Watson had no children.
He was also a widower, Mary died.

If they are sticking to the basic facts of the books then Watson is childless, so make of that what you will....

Pissed me off a bit about Mrs Hudson tbh. She was a widow too, no double murderer as a husband, but I guess they have to add some drama. They would possibly only have included that if it was leading to something; why else give an erroneous detail about Mrs Hudson?

Sherlock Holmes was quite self aware in the book. Watson once listed his shortcomings. Hence he never attended social occasions and was very much a solitary figure. Having said that, he did show that he cared for Watson when Watson was almost shot in The Empty House.

One of the murder victims in the Sign of Four was killed in a room which was locked on the inside and no other apparent way in.

It was not a skewer that was used in the books but a harpoon, in Black Peter.

Another intriguing fact: In the Adventure of the Eligible Bachelor the bride goes missing during the Reception. It transpires that her first husband, whom she thought dead, had turned up at the wedding and she left to abscond with him.

She signalled to him by dropping her bouquet next to him - did anyone see who Mary threw her bouquet to? Sherlock wasn't it?

They may not be using that story, but didn't Holmes leave during the reception?

Sorry, Noble Bachelor, Eligible Bachelor is what they changed it to for the Jeremy Brett series.

Now THERE was a good Holmes!