Sherlock episode 2 thread!

[Allthingsprettyreturns]

Who is with me?

Mrs Hudson's criminal husband was introduced in the first series – Sherlock says she owes him because he made sure her husband got executed for his crime.

So they had a pre-existing detail, which might account for why he was brought up again in this episode. The original detail might have been put in just for the joke of Sherlock being able to say that he ensured her husband's execution and to explain why they could afford such a centrally located flat. Or it might be part of a whole planned storyline that Mrs Hudson's 'you never really know people' comments are foreshadowing...

Mary was an orphan in The Sign of the Four, so I don't think this is necessarily sinister in the TV show.

Holmes shows his greatest emotion for Watson in The Three Garridebs, when Watson is shot. Holmes' eyes are dimmed and his lips shake and he tells the criminal that if he had killed Watson, he would not have left the room alive.

The "best and wisest man I have ever known" is how Watson refers to Holmes when he thinks Holmes is dead at the end of the Final Problem. I think it is a nice touch for Sherlock to use those words, but he would never have repeated them. Once was enough.

Ah sorry, there was no bouquet that I can see, just double checked but if it is the plot of the Noble Bachelor then there will be a signal in there to someone and it is telling that he leaves at the Reception, just as the bride does in the book. Hmmmm

Sherlock throws a flower to the bridesmaid. Don't think it is significant.

The Three Garridebs of course it was!

How curious that ITV are currently showing re-runs of Brett and that was one of them yesterday.

Claraschu, if they are doing an interpretation of the Noble Bachelor it might be, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

My guess is that Mary dies - there is no child born. Whether they make her sinister or not, well that's up to them.

Mary Morstan was not quite an orphan, well not to her knowledge anyway, her father had gone missing. Sholto was her benefactor - he was responsible for the death of her father. So if she is made sinister, that will be the connection.

Glad someone else remembered Mrs Hudson's husband being mentioned in the very first ep. Watson assumes that Sherlock proved his innocence and that's why Mrs Hudson is grateful but he actually proved his guilt and he was executed. Loved how Sherlock called her Hudders when they were drunk!

I watched it. Some good camera tricks and bril diologue. But do some people find it too clever by half?.

Love the fact that Holmes can never get Lestrade's first name right. Only a Sherlockian would know from the books that although he was Inspector G Lestrade, no-one knew what the G stood for, hence why he is called something different everytime Sherlock addresses him.

I loved Mycroft being "the voice of reason" in Sherlock's mind palace - having no doubt taught his brother about deduction when they were growing up (being older & as he likes to emphasise, wiser!). Though in this case he could only get so far intellectually and turned to John, his heart and man of action to actually try to save the life that was still hanging in the balance.

They've made quite a bit more of the Mycroft & Sherlock relationship this series - very glad his brother was vindicated as having been 'in on it' with the fall all along, and that they brought down Moriarty together. Even if the watching his little brother being tortured and not rushing to stop it was a little strange - later games of Operation & Deductions make it clear they're on pretty good terms still though. And Sherlock practically begging him to come to 'the evening do' (persumably to help fight best man's speech nerves!).

I'm intrigued by the "Redbeard" reference between them - Mark Gatiss has tweeted it again, stirring further speculation. Just a moment of childhood nostalgia for when Sherlock wanted to be a pirate? Or something more sinister? The trailer for next week shows Magnussen clearly has something on Mycroft; 'go against him and you'll be going against me'. Master blackmailers having dirt on the British Government can't end well...

Can't think offhand of anything in the books?

Oh but.............................

In the beginning, the bank robbery? Well the best case of bank robbery was in the Adventure of the Red-Headed League where the robbers dug a tunnel from a rented property under the street and into the bank vaults. That tactic was also used in the real Baker Street Robbery. It's all I can think of and would link the beginning of that programme together with the Red Beard reference.

claraschu can you think of anything? I gather you're a Sherlockian too?

Marylou2 I agree, Elementary is better. If, for no other reason than it's an actual TV series, not 3 episodes every 18 months or so. The characters have far more time to develop.

That's not to say it didn't like this last episode of Sherlock; the whole stag night bit was hilarious. And the last 15 minutes were ok too. But huge plot holes (just one in my list: the major lives in the middle of nowhere, all these women work for him, but they go on dates with the "ghost" in the middle of London), the lack of continuation between the episodes and the knowledge that the next/last episode is likely to be another cliff hanger to leave us gasping until 2015 puts me off it.

Give me Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu any day.

Elementary? With Joan Watson?

I don't think Elementary is better - personally I think Sherlock is incredible TV, from the acting to the direction to the visuals - but it is actually very good. It's utterly different, which helps. I expected to hate it and hate Joan Watson but again, like Sherlock, they've managed to come up with a completely believable relationship betwen the two and even though Joan being female adds a new dimension, there is absolutely no chemistry between them, which is very refreshing. And I like JLM's take on a more human Holmes. Plus he's spectacularly hot and takes his top off a lot

Thurlow, that does not hurt my appreciation of the show either.

If Sherlock was on more regularly or had more episodes, I think I would prefer it, but as it stands...

I like Sherlock because it entertains me and it also fulfils my inner nerd when it comes to Holmes. I like getting all the subtle references and nods to other stories in the Canon and to Doyle himself. You can definitely tell they are genuine fans.

I think the US version just ripped off the British version. I know nothing about the writers, I can't see any episodes (don't have cable TV) but I think I would probably hate them unless they are written by Sherlockians. That's how Sherlock is so clever, it appeals to die-hard fans of the books as well as everyone else. Does Elementary do that?

In the original books,doesn't Mary die in childbirth?

I thought galloping consumption got her but I may be wrong.

interesting theories/predictions on this thread, marking my place.....

Re the women all working for the major - does Sherlock actually ask them who their employer is, in the courtroom scene, or does he just say it to himself?

Because, if he did ask them directly, why was that not the question that made them log off?

The question that made them log off was "do you have a secret?" and they all said "No!" and went away.

So, if the common thread was that they had all worked for the major, when Sherlock asked "Who's your employer?" why didn't they all disappear then.

Also, if your big secret was that you had previously worked for someone for whom you had signed a confidentiality agreement, would you get all nervous when asked "do you have a secret"? I don't think I would.

I do love Sherlock though and really enjoyed the ep.

It isn't said how she died.

I think I've got it:

In the original Sign of Four, Mary Morstan's father was murdered by Cpt Moran. In the series, she is an orphan. What better way to get closer to Cpt Moran than through his old friend, Watson?
As Holmes said, who would go to great lengths to attend a wedding? Well nearly everyone right? So that would be her chance to meet him face to face.
She married Watson to get to Moran.

Just a theory mind - but I also think they might add in elements of the Noble Bachelor in that the bride may well go missing during the reception.

She has to die - there is no baby.

They all had a secret remember? They didn't say what their secret was?

Could Mary also have a secret and this is what he is alluding to?

Moran was responsible for the deaths of many men, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that he was responsible for her father's death, as in the original story.

She knows it.

I'm looking forward to the next one now!

Elementary has some nods to cannon, but it is a standalone show. You can almost forget that it is Sherlock Holmes. It's just a police procedural about a hot insanely clever and socially incompetent bloke and his trainee detective. They could have been called any names and it would have worked just as well. Though there are similarities, namely with Watson bringing Holmes out of his shell. The drug use is played up much more, which to me actually works and gives JLM's Sherlock a completely different spin. So BC's Sherlock is so clever he has basically shut himself off from the world; JLM's Sherlock is so clever he went off the rails. Two actually very different characters.

Sherlock still wins, but Elementary is worth a go as a weekly show.

(AndiMac, do you remember the episode which opened with Sherlock handcuffed topless to a chair with strippers? If Moffatt & co are going to steal one storyline, I think it should be that one...)

Re the women's secret, I thought the secret they were referring to was working for a man who probably had lots of confidentiality agreements etc because he was at risk?

I immediately thought of the Red Headed League (red beard reference + bank robbers with gold ingots). Sorry I don't have any other ideas-

But it was said that the people who died were all raw recruits wasn't it? Given that he would have to be a similar age or older than the Captain, that's not very likely is it? Also wouldn't that be, well, a bit boring?