Make me a German, BBC 2

[ImperialBlether]

Anyone watching this? I wondered how long they were staying for, given that they are leaving their elder two children in the UK.

My son used to have a 10.30 finish when he first started school!

He also had an 11.15 finish with a "late" start-8.45.

When my daughter started it was regulated to 8-12 for the first two yrs, 8-1 for the next two.

Then onto secondary which is mostly 8-1.15.

I do think it presented an odd view tbh.

From what I've seen here (I'm in the north), it's pretty much the same as the UK-some mums have the choice & either work or don't, some mums have to work.

I thought they were the wrong couple for the project.

They were asked to live like "average Germans". They are not average Britons so were hardly comparing like with like.

It would be far more relevant to see what at family with an average UK income would think of the lifestyle.

Very true funnnyossity

Yes and putting that journalist on a factory line was ridiculous. Why didn't they get a factory worker from the UK who was married to a SAHM to do it? That would have been more interesting.

Interesting programme but think they should have chosen a more 'average' city. Bavaria is far more traditional and what people would think of as 'stereotypically' German, than somewhere like Frankfurt which I think would be more representative. The programme made it look like most kids go to forest schools which is just not the case.

I have family in the North and have visited about twice a year for the last 20 years. I feel that generally people are far more considerate, community-minded and more polite than we are.

Last year we went to the annual Karnival at 7pm and left around 11. We went by tram. The whole city centre was packed as was the fairground. Right until we left, there were people of all ages, families of all ages, groups of teens, more beer tents then you could count, yet the atmosphere was not at all threatening/aggressive at any point - it was a really fun, pleasant evening.

Younger people don't seem to go out on the lash every weekend and end up collapsed in a heap (not that I've seen anyhow). Teenagers are polite and helpful generally. I feel safe going out on my own/travelling on public transport at night. Older people are listened to and respected far more. I've seen many an oldie tell off a child/teen on a tram for messing about. And the kids are generally well behaved enough to pack in whatever they're doing.

I don't recognise it being a controlled society either. On New Year's eve for instance, it looks like a war zone with masses of people out on all the streets letting off massive fireworks/throwing fireworks out apartment windows, lobbing them down the street etc. It's one time I am genuinely flipping petrified because it's just so dangerous and there'd be campaigns to get it stopped over here. At the Karnival it's tradition for the people on the floats to hurl masses of sweets/lollies etc out into the crowd. One caught me on the face and it really hurt. That would be banned by Council risk assessment bods over here. Kids don't wear school uniforms, there's no health & safety warnings everywhere you turn. National school exams are often marked internally. In many ways it seems far less regulated than over here.

I felt the programme picked up on there not being the whole "An Englishman's home is his castle" attitude where people who aren't on the property ladder are looked down on and which prompts people to inform their neighbours "It's my f....... house and I'll do what I f..... want in it when I f....... want to. To me that's not exercising individuality, it's being a selfish, inconsiderate pita.

Lots of schools now do full school days, I'm told. Think it's recognised that kid's weren't getting enough hours of education and that it's tough on working parents.

I really like Bee Rowlatt. I don't think she was sneering, just trying to get to the bottom of the SAHM/working mum situation. I agree that it would have been better to send an "average" (according to statistics) family. The Rowlatts were Newsnight's Eco Family git a year a few years ago and ruined all their hardworking to be environmentally friendly at the end by having another baby!
Also, you can't really compare the UK and German post-war economies as they were given financial aid and the centres if their bombed towns were beautifully rebuilt. The UK had massive debts to repay, no support to rebuild and left to the mercies if the 1960s replanners.
Btw I see plenty of young people on the lash and puddles if puke after a festival when we go to Austria!

I found both husband and wife a bit spoilt tbh. He couldn't get to work on time and she basically said SAHPs are not fully functioning members of society (although at least she didn't blurt it out in front of the German SAHMs!)

And the noisy children part was interesting as they seem oblivious to the effect they have on others.

I could be a grumpy Bavarian couldn't I.

I'm sure there was a bit where the camera panned away from where they were living & you could hear them arguing!

And no noise on a Sunday is fantastic!

Iirc, "quiet time" is 8pm-7am & all day Sunday.

Kids are allowed to be kids, though!

I don't dislike Bee Rowlatt but I think she could have done a bit more investigation. Isn't that what media people are meant to do? Even the fact that just over 50% of German mothers are SAHM means that almost 50% aren't SAHM. So there are working women around, why not talk to some of them as well to try understand the pressures working mothers are under. For journalists/media people I found them both lacking in some real curiosity.

The renting/home ownership issue is also not as clear cut as made out in the program. In the small Frankonian village where I grew up pretty much everybody owns their house and in the other villages around it is the same. Even my working class parents (my father worked 45 years in an iron smelter) own their house. My grandfather built it, pretty much with his own hands and the help of neighbours and friends, in the 20ties and my parents extended it twice. It was tough on my parents financially but it is just how it's done there. It's different in cities. Maybe people would be more prepared to rent in GB if tennants had similar protection as German tennants have. I bought my first flat 6 month after coming to GB because i disliked it so much to be a tennant there.

I was looking forward to it. And was quite disappointed. It seemed to have very little content.
So what ARE the differences between life here and Germany then?

Yes we got that wife didn't do the 4.2 hrs of cleaning. And that women didn't have the chance to go back to work. But that the outside childcare was fab.

But is THAT it? barely scratching the surface, is it?
This programme could have achieved so much more. And I thought it was very weak and very poor.

1 month was nowhere near long enough, and I agree that they should have chosen UK folk from an average income bracket to go there. He came across as quite sloppy, and they were obviously used to living in a large house not a flat with the kids squealing and their late night bickering.
I felt she didn't really try to get into it. Why not make the effort to become good at German cooking and know how to cook and serve saurkraut and some good German cakes rather than be sneery and decide all that housework is beneath her and she'll do ? what instead.
It's like the couples who used to go on wife swap and there was always one who just wouldn't make the effort to do things the other person's way.
As it was just for a month she could have tried more. Also why did he join a singing club if he couldn't sing? i'm sure the average German joins a club in something they are interested in and good at, doing the average thing in that case is missing the point and not being average at all.

It feels a bit like a missed chance this program, both programs actually, the food one too. I know German food has a bad reputation but it deserves better than that.

i registered just to make a comment as i thought what was revealed in the show was so tragic.

Just on from 40:45 into the show, when the couple ar discussing things, the woman makes a key statement. (at 41:45)

"I put it that women should be functioning members of society"

She is basically saying that a mothers/housewife is NOT a functioning member of society.

its on iplayer, check it yourself. How does a british women get conditioned to beleive this?

oh sorry. i realise now looking at the post dates above this show is a old repeat, but anyway there it is. My 80 yr old mum recommened it to me today and hence i found it on iplayer.

As someone who grew up there - virtually all my German female classmates who now have small kids do not work (under 6). The German friends I have who are career-oriented do not have kids (yet). I did know a lady with a 'proper' career whose child spent time at a childminder after school.

I do believe that childcare is less expensive there due to there not being an obsession with H&S. I mean... have you seen the kids climbing the trees in the forest school?!? Would they have let them do that here?! Here, you need all-safe facilities, etc. Insurance (accidental, etc.) cost a lot for nurseries, riding schools, etc. I am guessing less people sue for accidents over there - i.e. they are taking responsibility.

There is an outdoor nursery here in extremely rural west coast Scotland were I live. I don't know if they climb on trees but they certainly seem to be doing fun stuff and I've seen them frighteningly close to cliffs.
It's quite funny how Germany is supposedly full of strict rules while at the same time utterly lackadaisical about H&S.

And we have a Steiner nursery round the corner in fairly central London. I think they were started in Germany mind you. I thought their premises were awful and the heater looked dangerous. In fact I've just remembered that it got shut down a couple of years ago. My German neighbour sent her DCs there

I like Germany but there's a very high rate of hausfrau's and not that many successful, high - profile, working women in Germany apparently. Also the foods yuk !!

Food's not completely yuck. If you think about it, Britain doesn't have great food either (best food here seem to have a lot of foreign influences)...

Re. the Hausfrau thing - because it is utterly affordable in Germany to have only one income in the family (and have a nice standard of living!), a lot of women sort of just decide to stay at home.

In the UK, it is almost necessary for two people to work - just because of the cost of housing alone! That's one of the reasons there are more women having careers in the UK. I mean... I like my job, and my career options (currently) look bright, so can't see myself giving it up. There have been times in the past though where I would have gladly thrown it away, if DH earned triple what he earns now (which would make the UK as 'affordable' as Germany)!

I would like to see the numbers properly broken down, like how many mothers work after one year, two, five and so on because as I said before on this thread, amongst my family (in the oh so conservative Bavaria) and aquaintances there is barely a mother who doesn't work. Of my fellow female studentes in the lab where I did my MSc there isn't a single one with children that I'm aware of who doesn't work and there are at least three who are now professors (2 at German universities, 1 at an Austrian one) and one who heads a department at one of the largest German pharmaceutical companies.
Also, on a German parenting forum where I'm a member the majority of women work, some only part time and many have taken the full 3 years off work but most are going back to work at some point.