The White Queen

[ShadeofViolet]

Anyone else ridiculously excited?

I know Philippa Gregory's books tend to be a bit Barbara Cartland in places, and I hope the BBC havent increased it, but I still cannot wait to watch it.

There were various herbal things that were known about like Queen Anne's Lace and pennyroyal but they tended to function as abortifacients rather than contraception exactly.
Later on people used citrus fruit as a barrier but I don't know if that started this early. Condoms (made out of animal gut) were used but more as a defence against venereal disease. I don't know if medieval people used sponges dipped in vinegar as I think they did in antiquity.
And the withdrawal method, as you say.
Basically there were various methods, none of them totally effective, but they would improve your odds.

i think the documentary was Wednesday night as i recorded it and started to watch it Thurs.

I take your point about Margaret not wanting any sex but what about poor old Rupert/Stanley. mind you I think she would have not had that point of view if Jasper had come back.

don't the Stanleys play apart in the English civil war as well.did they tend to sit on the fence politically.

also reading lady of Rivers where she marries the Uncle, earl of Bedford and the marriage is not consumated. he says he is 'unmanned'. Is that a euphesism for impotent. I hadn't heard of that or had he lost his willy in war (now I am being really silly)

yes, impotent.

I'm lapping this programme up, realise that doesn't make me very high-brow.

and Richard, phoarrr.

Good to see the appearance of Jane Shore, just to mess with poor EW's head a little.

I think with a show like this they have dispensed with total accuracy I guess that complicates the narrative and drives the thing along at a nice dramatic speed - ie Anne Nevill escaping to the kindly pubbe (did that happen in rl? I wasn't sure) or the nicer warwick brother John Neville fighting for Lancaster in his York underpants.

I'm still enjoying it tbh.

I only "know" the characters of Richard/Clarence from Shakespeare's Richardiii, & love how Clarence seems so awful & symapathy with Richard.

Had to laugh last night when Edward said something like "we are not the same people who met by the roadside (years ago??)" & I'm thinking-funny, they look exactly the same...

I'm enjoying it more now there's more of Anne Neville of less of Mad Margaret and Swedish Elizabeth.
Also it helped that I missed last week because the fact that last night's episode consisted almost entirely of characters explaining things to each other that they already knew was quite helpful.

Who was the baby that died last night?

Wasn't there a daughter after Edward who lived a few months?

I haven't got my books to check and I can't remember enough to find it online. He isn't one of the three. According to the book he was born premature and lived a little longer than they show, it also didn't have Jaquetta having a drawn out death, she was cuddling the baby in front of the fire and when Elizabeth found them they had both already died.

I like watching it just to watch Richard

Very dashing in blue velvet. Wish men dressed like that now....

I agree.
Also, bring back the hanging sleeve.

were the two prices the ones that mysteriously disappeared from Tower of London. Rumoured that Richard 3 had them murdered so he was next in line to throne? he was acting King or whatever while they grew up

I thought that it was a daughter after Edward who lived a few months.

Sure that the baby last night was a boy & died almost immediately?!

In the book it's a boy but not straight away.

Even though this series is so confusing I've got my old history book out to figure out who's who I'm really enjoying it and loving every episode.

Oh god, I'm loving this! It's strange watching something and knowing how it will end and just waiting for it to get there. I've just read The White Queen and am on The Red Queen now. tbh, I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic to Margaret. Her marriage and labour was horrific, but her piety seems to be about vanity.

I don't find PG very sympathetic to medieval religion tbh!

Yes, I get that feeling too. It's quite clear that she didnt like Margaret.

In the book, the baby that dies in Jacquetta's arms is a girl. And she doesn't die immediately after birth, she gradually weakens.

it's been awhile since I read it and I have loaned my books out. I knew their deaths took time, I guess too much for a series.

I didn't feel RQ was written sympathetically to their side at all.

it's been awhile since I read it and I have loaned my books out. I knew their deaths took time, I guess too much for a series.

I didn't feel RQ was written sympathetically to their side at all.

Bit risky Margaret agreeing to non consummation of marriage - surely if found out it would be annulled?

Why bother with the 'marriage' then

I am no reading kingmakers daughter about Anne Neville which helps as you obviously get more detail and it makes more sense. too much going on in tv series and they have left out important bits.

e.g didn't realise john wood Ville had married elderly Neville aunt and gets executed with his father although series showed execution iyswim

I wonder if the Margaret - Stanley marriage was really non-consummated. I always assumed that the reason Margaret didn't have any more children was because giving birth aged 13 left her too badly damaged to be able have any more.

Yes, unless it's recorded somewhere, I wouldn't have thought that it's known for sure!