The White Queen

[ShadeofViolet]

Anyone else ridiculously excited?

I know Philippa Gregory's books tend to be a bit Barbara Cartland in places, and I hope the BBC havent increased it, but I still cannot wait to watch it.

LeQ I think the budget went on dogs last week. I noticed more.

This week on soldiers, there were at least 10.

As for the language, Isabella said "Bye husband" to George, didn't she? "Bye husband"

Agnes - I heard the Josephine Tey "The Daughter of Time" on Radio 7 (as was) and then bought the book. Loved the flavour but got lost as had no clue who was who and thus whodunit and whydunit.

I know more now - but from this thread rather than The White Queen

Did anyone else spot the drainpipes? Just before they go down the concrete steps with a national trust style hand rail?

Yes, Josephine Tey thought it was Henry.

yes, lovely drainpipes and guttering.
Made me realise how little I know about the history of drainpipes though

It's 28 years since I read Daughter of Time but I've been blaming Henry ever since, that's how I remember

I saw a documentary once that put the case forward that Margaret Beaufort murdered the Princes. She's scarily bonkers enough in the White Queen for sure.

LeQ I have honestly no idea who Tey's detective thought dunit, will enjoy reading it again though. The radio serialisation helped get me through packing a 5-person household to move house. That and the Pallisers.

I haven't watched this week's yet, but have decided that it's okay to read the books - it's not as if there will be big spoilers!

I also remember her arguing that Richard looked nice and Henry looked kind of shifty, though.

Yes, I think it was.

I always thought Tey's argument was flawed anyway. if Henry could lift the act of attainder to marry Elizabeth it would have been just as easy for one of the princes or one of their supporters to do the same and topple Richard. So I've always thought that Richard was the most likely suspect. Although he wouldn't presumably have done the deed himself, so someone acting for him perhaps. or even someone who just thought it was what he'd want.

Oh thanks for the spoilers chaps I'm on page 50 of Tey's book, so now I know Henry did it...

I came upon this book as I've spent a lot of time pondering Richard since the hoo-hah in the car park, and I haven't been able to really see Riii's actual motivation in dispensing of the princes. After all he was Regent (right?), protector of both the boys and England, popular-ish, killing his nephews seems a really idiotic act/ shoot self in foot type moment?

That said blah blah Canon law, 'act f attainder' mentioned above ,wta is that anyway, so I will keep going with Tey.

I wondered about avoiding the "spoilery" posts too, Agnes but I think part of the enjoyment (when I read it again) will be that I now know more about who everyone was - and enough to possibly disagree with Tey's conclusions

It's 500 odd years old. A bit late for spoilers!

I've also been looking at Wikipedia - hard to avoid "spoilers" there :o

FidGirl was watching Horrible Histories yesterday and the Richard III song came on. Made me laugh.

An attainder legally declares you guilty of a crime and takes away your property and titles, not just from you personally, but means you can't pass them on to your heirs. It de-nobles you, effectively. Henry VIII used them a lot.
Henry ordered the utter destruction of some families after the Pilgrimage of Grace. The Tudors tv series took that literally and had him killing kids, but actually it was just the way people talked about an attainder - it 'destroyed' a noble family.
The other advantage of an attainder was that it meant you could torture and execute a nobleman or woman using methods that were only allowed for commoners, because they weren't noble any more.
It was easier to convict someone of treason by attainder than by trying them properly in a court of law.
They were easily reversible though.

OK spoilers. Tey is saying now, via helpful nurses/surgeons in the detective's hospital that the boys in the tower were still alive after Bosworth.

Really?