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Dr Who has really gone off, hasnt it?

355 replies

Snog · 27/04/2013 19:23

Dr Who used to be genius...it`s gone really downhill now hasn't it?

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 19/05/2013 09:04

2 doctors.

fancyanother · 19/05/2013 09:05

Soup, I thought he said he too the name Doctor because it was a statement of intent, ie to help people, but JH's Doctor had betrayed the given name. I assume then that JH was the Doctor some time after the name was chosen.
DT- No there is one Doctor, MS and JH are different incarnations.Just as DT and MS will be different incarnations of the same person in the 50th, even though they appear at the same time.

fancyanother · 19/05/2013 09:06

took

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 19/05/2013 09:13

Agreed Fancy

He did, but he said John Hurt's Dr didn't deserve the name because it was a name of intent and he had broken that through his actions. John Hurt had betrayed the name of the doctor so he was around after the name was chosen

Also they were inside the DC's own timeline where he could meet any/all of his past regenerations. John Hurt's doctor was not in 'real life'

IAmNotAMindReader · 19/05/2013 09:16

The name thing I took to mean he was saying the JH Doctor had no right to the name because the attrocities he committed in the Time War were not in the name of the Dcotor.

In the Doctors Daughter he leaves the people there with the words live your life as a man who never would because I never would. The JH Doctor was probably born and died in the Time War and the rest of them probably feel he took the choice too easily even though it probably killed him and lead to the CE regeneration.

We know those events caused massive devastation throughout the universe. In series one the Gelf are left without form and try to invade Earth. They stated the lower planets like Earth didn't notice but the more advanced worlds were left in chaos. In fact even in the opening episode of series one with the plastic people their unifying consciousness is raging at what he did. Even though we never know what it said. It was correct because CE's Doctor replies weakly that he had no choice as if he thinks now there may have been alternatives.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/05/2013 09:59

it was GOOD, wasn't it? almost like Moff took his eye off the ball for the rest of the series, cos he was concentrating on that and the anniversary.
thought jlc acted well in that ep, also, fingers crossed now that her mystery is solved she can relax into being a normal human companion.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/05/2013 10:00

i had assumed that he's the doctor prior to hartnell, and what made him run away etc. but this whole valeyard thing sounds brilliant.

RustyBear · 19/05/2013 10:08

Just watched it again...

"The name you choose is like a promise you make. He's the one who broke the promise. He is my secret"

"What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity"

"I know. But not in the name of the Doctor"

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 19/05/2013 10:09

Having a doctor before Hartnell would be harder to do because of so many back references to double check. For instance, The Doctor has had quite a lot of dealings with Galafrey over the years, especially as Tom Baker...I always got the impressions he was considered a bit of a rogue but not a mass destroyer (which is the impression I got last night)

I think we are finding out exactly why he is the last of the time lords.

RustyBear · 19/05/2013 10:17

If this 'doctor' really is the one who fought the Time War, it may explain why the Doctor needs a companion.
When CE's doctor (9 or 10?) came to Earth in the first episode of the new series, he was newly regenerated, still obviously had memories of the Time War but was trying to forget - but he had a lot of hate - remember 'Dalek' where Rose persuaded him not to destroy the lone Dalek?
When he had a companion again, it helped to heal him; when he was without one he slipped back into the doctor who forgot his promise, who would think he could do anything he wanted if the end justified the means, who didn't know when to stop. Donna recognised that he needed someone to tell him when to stop.

SoupDragon · 19/05/2013 10:20

Dog was being bloody annoying at that point so I didn't quite catch what was said :)

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 19/05/2013 10:26

There certainly has been a dark cloud of tragedy hanging over the doctor since his return as Ecclestone

edam · 19/05/2013 11:02

Ds came up with a theory that John Hurt is somehow the other Doctor who was created by Donna absorbing the Time Vortex (the one the Doctor gave to Donna) but that doesn't fit. Ds is 9, though, so I think it's quite a good theory for someone in Year 5.

Just watched it again with dh, who was out working last night. He was VERY grateful that not only had we kept quiet (I didn't even give anything away on Facebook) we had hidden the Doctor Who bingo cards dh had brought home from Forbidden Planet. (FP also had leaflets from that theme park they were in last episode, which ds loved.) Think I get top wifie brownie points that I can trade on for quite a long time and ds gets top Good Boy points.

edam · 19/05/2013 11:59

the doctor gave to Rose, I mean.

IAmNotAMindReader · 19/05/2013 12:10

Parts of the puzzle have been given to us in other episodes.
We know The Time War is time locked.
We get a hint that this means the participants are doomed to fight the same battles and die and be reborn to fight them again over and over (from DT's last story).
We know the other Time Lords who had previously been peaceful were going to bring about the end of time and tried to do so again by using the Master to break them out (in DT's last story).
What we don't know is how and what other collateral damage there was.

Jux · 19/05/2013 12:29

Sometimes I long for the days when Dr Who was simply an alien, and it didn't matter if you missed an episode or a whole series, and there weren't hints and clues and bits and pieces.... Grin. But then you ended up with Davison, and McCoy and rather a lot of crap.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the first series (Hartnell) is available anywhere?

alpinemeadow · 19/05/2013 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

teejwood · 19/05/2013 15:05

I think it says a lot that DS, who generally has been a bit meh about this series, exploded with something akin to rage that he was going to have to wait until November for the next episode Grin

Am sooo glad I was not the only one sobbing at the River scenes. The Doctor/River has got to be one of my favourite love stories of all time, bonkers as it is. And I loved the fact we have more questions in spite of much of it being resolved.

Am with those who think JH has got to be the version of the Doctor through the Time War. Yes he despised the darkness and duplicity of the Valeyard, but his attitude towards JH seems to be at another level.

And did anyone think that River opened the door because she needed Clara to be alive, more than anything else, because she knew what Clara was going to do? The old "Whatever your thinking of doing, don't" seemed to be more of an encouragement to Clara's type of character.

Also loved the admonition to the Doctor to think about why there was a link between River and Clara. If it wasn't for the snogging that had already taken place, you would assume she was saying that Clara is a distant relation (based upon what happened in Hide). Or maybe she is saying that an element of Clara entered not just the Doctor's timelines but also the being of some of the companions? Some of those outfits were very Sarah Jane, Ace etc.

IAmNotAMindReader · 19/05/2013 15:11

I Like that teejwood. As if she had to be sure he'd listen and so elements went to them too.

Badvoc · 19/05/2013 15:13

I can't watch it anymore.
Loved it when da I'd tennant was the dr.
Matt smith is a gurning over acting tosser.
The writing, casting, everyone had gone very downhill IMO...

marjproops · 19/05/2013 18:07

jux you can get hartnells stuff on dvd. the very very first episode EVER is just amazing.

rosy71 · 19/05/2013 18:39

Having watched it again today, I'm beginning to think JH must be the doctor in the Time War. I'm not quite sure how he ended up dead in a soldier's graveyard though. Confused

RustyBear · 19/05/2013 18:44

Well, he didn't, really, did he? At least he hasn't 'yet' if you can ever use that word about a Time Lord. He only ended up there as part of the Doctor's complete time stream after the Doctor finally died - we still don't know when that will be, or how, from a linear subjective viewpoint.

I love the fact that the Doctor's final form did actually look like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff...

Jux · 19/05/2013 20:37

Thanks, marj. I can just about remember it, but I was 5 ....

marjproops · 19/05/2013 20:55

I was only just born! they showed it some years back on the whatever anniversary of doctor who. loved it. and loved when it came back in 2005 the scene where the tardis was in the yard at the back of the restaurant, just reminded me of the 1st ever episode where the tardis was in the junkyard.