Homeland - Season 2 Finale, the Final Thread

[Fiderer]

The other one's nearly full, so here we go with Carrie & Brody, St Saul of Snacks and our theories of What Happens Now.

I thought the same about Saul being Jewish doesn't make sense him being on the Muslims side.

Maybe the actress playing his wife is coming back in season three and that's an easy way of reintroducing her. I think saul is innocent.

Also I did think Nazir gave the info too easily to Brody especially as Brody had the massive wobble. So maybe it was part of the plan all along. To stitch up Brody as they had the tasty home video all along.

If Brody didn't double cross Nazir then they would have bombed the soldiers home coming anyway.

I agree that it is odd to doubt Saul but I do because he doesn't give anything anyway. I see him as having an internal view which is about humanity but not necessarily one that the state would approve of.Does that make sense?
Do we know that he is Jewish or are we assuming that? Could he have for example a Jewish mother and a father who is Arabic and could that explain his world view?
I wonder of the writers of Homeland realise just how much time is given to pouring over the minutiae of their work?

To me Saul been Jewish makes no difference. He's clearly not religious if you look at his wife. Unless she is Jewish but, I'd be surprised. He did speak about it in the first series when he was driving the woman terrorist back. I just can't remember what he said!!

I don't want him to be bad though. I'm glad his wife is coming back but I agree that it was strange for her to come into it like that.

Hello, thoughts that formed during the night: I think Quinn "I kill bad guys" will feel massively guilty for not killing Brodie & spend next series hunting him down.
Also think/hope Carrie & Dana will talk but Carrie may waver due to the strange kissing incident.

I don't believe Saul is bad, if he was there is no solid foundation left.

This is what I meant. He's a cultural Jew

www.jewcy.com/arts-and-culture/network-jews-saul-berenson-from-showtimes-homeland

That's a really interesting analysis of Saul's character. Reminded me of bits of the 1st season I'd overlooked/forgotten. I think it's convinced me I've no idea if he's good or bad, and probably won't ever know til the end is nigh.

Brody did it.
Quinn will hunt him down.

I am edging towards that conclusion too. We didn't see/hear what was said when he disappeared in the helicopter and there was also the conversation with Roya when they couldn't hear what was being said. I think he is a baddy. Just not sure if Saul is too. He's just too good in this.

I think the Saul-praying thing was meant to highlight the fact that he is NOT driven by any other outside forces. So whilst Brody was being 'driven' by Nazir, and Quinn by Estes, and Nazir by his desire for revenge, and Carrie by her ambition/feelings for terrorist Brody, Saul was the only one who stayed true.

So he could not be corrupted form the cause, nor threatened by Estes/Dar Adal. He stayed faithful to his (paternalistic) love for Carrie, and his belief in all things good. This lost him his wife, and the respect of some in the CIA and put him under suspicion.

So even at the lowest point, ie surrounded by 200 dead bodies, obv a big CIA chuff-up somewhere, he thinks Carrie is dead, he's all alone - his instinct is to pray for the dead. Ie that prayer highlights that he's above all, a Good Man. (and that it was a Jewish prayer is incidental). And his wife coming home - ad later him seeing that Carrie's actually alive - is the start of the tide turning for him.

Have I mentioned that I love Saul?

The bit that does not sit well with me is - why did Quinn NOT kill Brody? He (Quinn) is a professional killer, he would not give a toss about taking out someone whist they were praying. And Brody WAS a terrorist.

I don't buy that any feelings for Carrie prevented Quinn from killing Brody.

I think we all love Saul.

If Saul if a baddie then the shark is officially jumped.

DH think they are setting him up as one too.

Maybe he is part of the 'bigger picture' and 'they' did not know whether brody was still faithful to Islam/the cause. He realised he was when he saw him praying, hence the turnaround.

I agree with you about Saul being the moral compass of the show.

OOh, bunch - interesting ! So that'd support the theory that Quinn is a baddy but on Nazir's side, so a double-agent in with Estes...

Thanks boffles I am glad you have also kept the faith. I was a lone voice of reason last night when all the doubters were throwing shade at Poor, Good Saul.

It would make an interesting twist, Quinn helping carrie clear Brody's name knowing that he was actually instrumental in the ultimate hit on the CIA. No one would have challenged Quinn moving Brody's car, and it would have had to be someone with clearance to get onto CIA property. I still think Galvez had more to play in this story. He'll be the only one other than carrie/Saul left, assuming he wasn't there as his stitches burst in previous episode.

I also think that Quinn was responsible for the bombing.
I thought it was significant that he seemed fully prepared to shoot Brody until he saw him praying, hence demonstrating that while Brody may have lost the faith, so to speak, with Nazir and his methods, he had retained the greater faith ie, Islam.
At that point Quinn decides not to shoot him - but that doesn't mean that in Quinn's eyes, Brody is not expendable.
Car bomb incident sets up Brody nicely as the perpetrator - a "fact" supported by the old VT, and CIA won't be looking for anyone else to blame on as they'll think Brody was the villain.
Only Carrie (and Brody) knows that the tape was old and that the words in it do not relate to this bombing AND that someone moved Brody's car from where he had originally parked it.
Brody's family now think that he was a terrorist all along.
Therefore, Carrie couldn't go with Brody as she is the only one who is in a position to find out the truth (no-one else will be looking) and clear Brody's name.
Once she's done that, then they can all live happily ever after.

Meant to say also,
I think Quinn is a Muslim too.

So Quinn sacrifices Brody, his Muslim brother, for the greater good.
(From a fanatics viewpoint IYKWIM).

Saul knows the vt is old too.

You know, as much as all the holes/implausible stuff was irritating in the 2nd series, I love discussing all the theories like this I think the holes/ambiguity have been deliberate to make all this 'debate' much more interesting - it's what keeps us watching after all! And Saul is just the best character as he's just so unreadable yet utterly compelling at the same time. How long do we wait for the 3rd series again?

Thinking back to when Quinn skewered Brody's hand, it kind of all fits. I can't quite put into words why, but that makes more sense now somehow.

Oh I hadn't thought of Quinn also being a Muslim.