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Downton Abbey Discussion continued...

999 replies

ErikNorseman · 07/10/2012 22:08

Here!

OP posts:
JennaMoroney · 09/10/2012 10:44

No! no worries, I know what you mean. It's just that the ira felt as distant to me as they did to most englsh people. Brew

JennaMoroney · 09/10/2012 10:44

oops, Brtish people I mean.

ppeatfruit · 09/10/2012 10:48

I can understand that jenna thanks for the cuppa I'll have a green tea please Grin . We're living between London\west country and Fr. It's odd living in a different country though Grin.

JennaMoroney · 09/10/2012 11:03

green tea? I don't have any of that iin the cupboard. i'm always gasping for a lovely cup of tea after a trip to france or spain!

Loopy4got · 09/10/2012 11:07

Can someone tell me about Ethel. I take it she is not "on the game"? I take it she is doing something utterly humbling like stitching or something. Can someone please let me know?

squoosh · 09/10/2012 11:12

Ethel has lowered herself by working as a waitress in horror of horrors, a modern Lyons tea rooms instead of a grand house.

Rumours that she is dropping her drawers for unrespectable men are completely unfounded. Kind of. In a way. Sort of.

JennaMoroney · 09/10/2012 11:15

at least she might get a few tips in the lyons tea rooms.

squoosh · 09/10/2012 11:18

I was touched by her goodbye to little Charlie. Was nice to see some raw emotion in DA.

Felicitywascold · 09/10/2012 11:19

I thought she was on the game? What have I missed?

Loopy4got · 09/10/2012 11:36

Oh good so she isn't on the game. I did think it was one of those things that everyone got wrong because no one would say. Wow life in the olden days!

When is Bates going to be freed?

It will all come right in the end..........

Punkatheart · 09/10/2012 11:54

Ethel is a prostitute - it was a huge problem for an unmoneyied/unmarried girls at the time - particular if you were a 'fallen' woman and had a baby.

Primogeniture I think was abolished in 1925...but at the time of Downtown now the women haven't even got the vote unless they are over 30 and homeowners. It seems as if Julian Gough has made a list of all the historical things and shoehorned 'em in.

I like Bates but he of course has an enemy now. I bet my aristocratic gold crown (I haven't got one - so it's no problem) that he does get out and is pursued by that escaped prisoner, Sherlock Holmesian style....

One thing they rarely talk about on Downton is books of the time - so of which were very influential. Big library though, so that's OK.

ppeatfruit · 09/10/2012 12:07

Julian Gough punk? I think you'll find he's called Julian Fellowes (with that extra 'e' of course) Grin

diddl · 09/10/2012 12:38

If Ethel isn´t "on the game"-why was she hanging around on the streets?

limitedperiodonly · 09/10/2012 12:44

Because all the youth clubs are closed, diddl?

HoratiaWinwood · 09/10/2012 12:54

The previous earl sewed up the land/money having to go with the title as part of the Robert/Cora marriage negotiations - Matthew can leave it where he likes. The title bit was outside their control.

Why oh why do I remember this stuff when I can't remember what I went into the kitchen for?!

diddl · 09/10/2012 13:16

He tied up Cora´s money to the estate.

But why does the entail end with Matthew?

squoosh · 09/10/2012 13:23

I am now picturing Matthew with a lovely swishing tail.

Loopy4got · 09/10/2012 13:47

Oh NO is Ethel really on the game? I thought they were all mistaken as they always talk around subjects??

diddl · 09/10/2012 13:53

Well Isobel is helping "fallen women", isn´t she?

Hence why Ethel went to her?

squoosh · 09/10/2012 13:58

Ethel is most definitely on the game. I wish she was working in a Lyons Tea Rooms.

dapplegrey · 09/10/2012 14:33

Squoosh I agree with you about attitudes of that era. However I suppose Julian Fellowes wants to portray Lord G as a decent person and the views held by those of Lord G's background at that time would today be so shocking that he would be regarded as a real baddy.
You're right though - it's not very realistic.

dapplegrey · 09/10/2012 14:36

Diddl - I don't know if the entail ends with Matthew (unless I've missed something) but they would have to find a male cousin who was descended through the male line from the first Lord Grantham.
If the title dies with Matthew (presuming he has no male heir) then I don't know what happens with the entail - presumably they can leave the house and estate to who they want.

JennaMoroney · 09/10/2012 14:37

true... the racism, sexism, classism, elitism would appall us all if he wrote us as it really was.

limitedperiodonly · 09/10/2012 14:54

dapplegrey I agree with you about attitudes. I'm about halfway through an old recording of Maison Close on Sky Arts.

It's set in a Parisian brothel in the 1880s. It's glossy and has definitely been made to be titillating but in reality it's unflinching and brutal.

The women are prisoners - a 15 year old was tricked into spending money thinking she was being taken out to dinner and was raped to pay off part of her debt. It's not clear when the debt will end - it keeps growing because they have to pay for board and lodging and clothes.

Another teenager was diagnosed with syphilis and had no idea how serious it was because the lesion wasn't painful. They did though and she was sold on to a cheaper brothel. She will undoubtedly die soon in misery and pain.

The police, courts, doctors and 'respectable' society perpetuate the misery and don't think they're doing wrong. The women have no rights and were banned by law from mixing with 'decent' people on the streets and confined to certain neighbourhoods.

I'm sure attitudes in Britain 40 years later weren't that much different. I can see how 'decent' women thought they deserved it and men were able to ignore their own hypocrisy.

Sorry about that rant.

Back to Downton. I see from the trailer the innocent new footman is horrified by Thomas's predatory gay ways Grin

dapplegrey · 09/10/2012 15:03

As you say Limited, they didn't think they were doing anything wrong as those were the generally accepted attitudes of the day.
I wonder in 100 years time how things will have changed from today and what generally accepted views of now will seem shocking to our descendants.
Sorry, off topic.