Downton Abbey Discussion continued...

[ErikNorseman]

Here!

I cried buckets last night watching it. Very wella cted, and Cora's scnes by the bedside where she talked about "my baby" had me howling, DS1 came through at one point to see if I was ok.

I think Matthew will convince Lord whatsisname to have Branson as estate manager, thus keeping the baby at Downton and out of the hands of the irish

It was very tramatic episode last night but i think it was a bit unreal that both doctors would not have recognised the symtoms especially as the Senior one was supposed to be a specialist, but I guess it made a good story to see the tiff between them, and to now have the frostiness between Cora and Robert - make up the bed in the dressing room stuff! How awful for both the sisters to witness such a death when they havent had children yet. In fact the multitude of peeps in the room was not pleasant and the Drs and nurse were very much in the background as she was fitting/dying. I have had a relative die in childbirth due to major cock ups from the medical team and another friend of my OH's wife - yes in London, whilst I too was pregnant, and it haunted me for years. I think Lady Mary is now going to be absolutely terrified of getting pregnant..role on next sunday. Bates/Anna is really boring me now.

Sorry, but WTF???

JennaLemon: "...yes and sadly, with more women than ever overweight, having children later, and getting gestational diabetes - could be on the rise."

Yes because only fat, old women get gestational diabetes and pre-e....

Glad of the "Lord 6" explanation, ta. Thought it was a clever "sixth earl" reference.

Just watched on sky+, half dead with tummy bug. Sobbed and sobbed, even though nothing at all surprising happened.

I don't think they are too familiar with the servants - there is a strict upstairs/downstairs thing which Sybil broke by becoming a nurse and see where that got her tsk tsk and the concern is idolatry on one side and patronage on the other. Each of them only knows about a few of the servants.

Agree about superb acting. Maggie Smith as suffering old woman rather than corseted dowager. Exquisite.

that was a good episode. I knew Sybil was going to die in childbirth when she went off with Tom. THey couldn't keep it up - the lady in her country estate with her ex chauffeur husband is just too unrealistic. If she had really run off with the chauffeur, she would have been cut off and never let back in. Branson will leave, he has to go off and do something, get a job. He cannot take baby Sybil because she needs to be looked after while he earns money, so the baby will stay behind at Downton with a wet nurse and a nanny but we won't see her since small children were out of sight of the grown-ups in that class in those days.

Mary will turn her stiff back on the marital bed after the shock of Sybil's death. Matthew will continue worrying about his manliness and fertility count. He will sort out the estate, become more confident and tough and he will look for comfort elsewhere, siring a male child of course who cannot be the heir. Mrs Crawley of course will take in the baby and his mother on Mary's doorstep

Still slightly traumatised about last nights episode but not as much as DP who couldn't even watch. He loves Downton (big girl) and was upset that he found it so upsetting!

Agree that the acting from Cora and the Dowager was spot on.

"Sorry, but WTF???

JennaLemon: "...yes and sadly, with more women than ever overweight, having children later, and getting gestational diabetes - could be on the rise."

Yes because only fat, old women get gestational diabetes and pre-e.."

Of course she didn't say that, but the risks are higher for a number of patient groups, including very young mothers, first time mothers, overweight mothers, and those with diabetes, who often are older and heavier (basic pathophysiology of insulin resistance there whether you like it or not), which is why in antenatal diabetes clinic, everyone is watched very, very carefully for signs of pre-eclampsia.

I'm afraid I had her down for dying as soon as she complained of a headache and ankle swelling. JF can never be accused of being subtle, so I was prepared for her final end from the first few minutes.

Oh yes, when Dowager was talking to Carson then walked away and faultered when she hobbled. Acting gold.

Dame Maggie is my ultimate hero. Fact.

Oh and yes Sybil's final pose before they laid her out. It was quite graphic, but serendipity i would have a chat with DD before to explain that there will be a graphic scene, but i would still consider letting her watch it. But have a full discussion afterwards about how far we have come with modern medicine etc. Agree with maryz on that one. As has been said it depends on your DD. It wasnt frightening per se, but it may upset her if she doesnt like anything too scary.

Mmmmmm, really struggling with the authenticity of this episode.

Eclampsia was fairly well known about by the 1920s & should definitely have been known about by the kind of doctors who would be treating a peer of the realm's daughter. Women of wealthy backgrounds would be encouraged to lie in and rest if they had swollen extremeties or suffered from headaches.

Treatment varied depending on the views of the physician, but magnesium sulphate was used by this stage too. Births could be hastened by the use of forceps, but c-sections were still not widely used & would have been extremely unlikely in a cottage hospital in rural England.

I think Matthew and Mary will find out they can't have their own child, Tom will run away to be a revolutionary and M&M will adopt the child.

Yes, but a girl isn't any use to them, is she? Especially a girl born to a girl, iyswim. Doesn't solve the succession at all.

Added to which they need a few boys very soon to head off to WW2 in a future series.

Can't say I was impressed with Sybil snuggling down in same nightie having just given birth. Was the bedding even changed? Nurse just there for decorative purposes, presumably. And Sybil the Second didn't look small for dates at all - quite big in fact.

No-one mentioned blood pressure which could have finally convinced Dr Know-All that summat was up.

I don't think a C-section was going to make much difference in the circs. but Robert's going to have to wear the hair shirt for a good few years.

Nice doctor took her blood pressure, hence the concern.

Aye as soon as Dr Clarkson said "pre-eclampsia" I was preparing myself for poor Sybil's demise. There was a Call The Midwife episode where the same thing happened, it was so sad.

My theory is that Pickle and Lord G will jostle for "control" of baby Sybil, Pickle will throw the head up and go back to Ireland to be a full-on revolutionary and bring lots of embarrassment/potentially good story lines to the family. He will eventually die and baby Sybil will grow up to be a tragically beautiful heroine with a exotic family history just in time for WW2. And judging by the speed we're running through the decades here, that should be the next series.

Mary will turn all cold(er) and frigid(er) towards Matthew as she is afraid of getting up the duff and the same thing happening to her. This storyline will run and run. And run. And run. Rather like Bates and his crazy-horse first wife.

I did predict that Sybil was going to die in child-birth but thought that this would be because her husband couldn't afford to pay for medical care. When it became clear that she was going to give birth at Downton, I thought it would be safe! Also predicted (wrongly) that the baby would be a boy and hence a future potential heir!
There is some confusion by previous posters about the difference between eclampsia and pre-eclampsia. Usually if the condition is spotted and treated at the pre-eclampsia stage (usually by delivering the baby) then it does not progress onto full blown eclampsia and this is the main reason for modern day health checks is pregnancy such as blood pressure testing and urine tests. The swollen ankles are a possible symptom but do sometimes occur in "normal" pregnancies. One the baby has been delivered with pre-eclampsia the blood pressure and urine return to normal.
It should also be pointed out that this condition is a risk to both mother and baby and that at least there was a healthy baby born here so the doctors in the programme should have some credit.

God, I hope Julian Fellowes is a MN lurker. 28 pages of adultation / response / criticism / ideas / opinions / tears / smirking.

LOVED Maggie Smith. Maintained a stiff upper lip during Sybil's death throes, but blubbed when she exchanged words with Carson and walked through the hallway. You could see her heart breaking. Give that woman another gong!

PS Of course, only watch it because I had an ancestor who lived at Downton - or Highclere as it was known in those days!!

Upstairs or downstairs legoballoon?

Thanks, Horatia. That must've happened whilst I was lecturing mentioning to DH that 'I could have died too blah blah'

Just watched on sky+. Didn't see it coming, am hormonal and in floods. Ta-ra Sybil!

Oscar for last night defo goes to Dame Maggie. OK it was a bit pantomime, but the way the indomitable old bat stumbled across the hall brought a lump to my throat.
DS and I watch DA with the lights off - thank goodness: he would have sniggered at my moist eyes.

MarthasHarbour - me too; that was the worst thing, having that plaintive little wail strike up in the background, with his mother and food-source lying blue on the bed. The survivors must have felt so helpless, although I expect you could express milk from a recently dead mother if you really had to.

I'm glad they found a wet-nurse quickly. Wondering if the tendancy for babies to pack on fat stores in late pregnancy is long-ago biological protection for death in childbirth .

Oh no Oscar goes to Sybil, what an amazingly graphic death.

Sorry... her mother and food-source.

The death wasn't as graphic as the eclampsia death in Call the Midwife. That one took days- had me sobbing too.