Daddy day care. Channel 4

[magicOC]

Anyone watching?

I had a researcher for this programme chat to me at our local soft play centre sometime last year. She was asking me what I thought about men's attitudes to child care, and if I knew any men who thought it was all 'women's work'. She was obviously a bit disappointed that I said that personally all the fathers of young children I knew were very involved in their children's care.

She told me a bit about the concept for the programme, and I thought at the time it sounded awful and very geared to make the men involved look stupid. Clearly they found some poor mugs willing to take part, though.

I actually wondered how ethical it was to film Stefan changing the little boy's nappy... You could see his penis clearly, it was not even obscured as the vaginas are in OBEM

If that was my little boy I would not have been happy to have him compromised in this manner. It is disrespecting the child's right to privacy and dignity whilst having this intimate act performed.

I mean imagine if an elderly person's genitalia was clearly displayed in a documentary on the NHS, there would be a national outcry. So why is it deemed okay when it is a child?

I thought it was quite disgraceful and that both Channel 4 and the Nursery Manager should be ashamed of themselves for enabling and allowing it.

The nursery is part of a chain so probably wasn't the manager making the decisions. I guess they wanted a bit of free publicity, and failed to consider the needs of the children as individuals. When we use (qualified) supply staff at my nursery, they don't change nappies, take children to the toilet, or put them to sleep - because having a stranger do those things would make the children uncomfortable. Fine for the older children to have new people do dance classes, play with them or take them on a trip with familiar staff on hand - but the babies/toddlers should have been cared for by the regular staff only.

Well not all publicity is good publicity.

interesting to read this as ds's nursery were considered to be in the programme but clearly weren't interesting enough - no male staff but only a couple male applicants in last decade.

And I don't think the staff did themselves any favours with their anti-male sentiment.

Again, this programme would really put me off sending my two boys there.

Didn't like the Nursery Manager at all. She seemed quite arrogant. And I know they said she had moved to that position rather quickly having previously worked as a nursery assistant. I just wonder if she progressed too fast as didn't seem she had thought through the implications of allowing the documentary makers into the nursery or of managing the situation [for all the talk of risk assessments]... although as someone pointed out perhaps there was someone above her who okayed it?

They're a reasonable sized chain, so I'm sure it wasn't the manager's decision.

What a ridiculous size for a nursery too - and with at least 12 children in each room, even the baby rooms. It had a bit of a warehouse feel to me.

i didn't see the programme but it sounds like thinly disguised stereotyping of the worst sort.

i did quite like 'the week the women went' though - don't know if you can get it in the uk though. essentially, an entire town's worth of women (Hardisty, Alberta) were taken away on coaches to spend a week on a spa break, leaving the men to perform not only the childcare but also perform all of the work in the town (essentially making them all single fathers for the week). in the end they were forced to make an exception for certain women, who were 'key players' in the town and provided essential emergency services at the hospital etc, so it wasn't possible to remove them all.

the men decided they were not only going to run the town and look after the kids, but were going to redesign and landscape the entire town centre park on a self help basis as well.

there were of course some of the usual dear god did he really give them that to eat moments, but i did find it an interesting experiment...

Watching this did not do the nursery any favours. It looked so cramped. Looked like the children loved the bear hunt . I would be suprised if they could get twelve to sleep at once they cannot all be tired.

I would have no idea how to get 12 kids to sleep - I couldn't manage with one.

I thought it was a "set up to fail" thing, and that the men actually managed the situation pretty well, and got something out of it. And I think the kids got something out of it as well.

I also thought the nursery staff were sexist.

TBH after about 1 minute I stopped watching it as a serious thing and enjoyed watching it as a cute kids running around entertainment whilst mine was asleep.

My dh was hopeless when the youngest son (now nearly 10) was born, he did change the odd nappy and thought he was performing a miracle when he fed our ds.

Now he's older, he comes to all his football matches, takes him on bike rides and walks and loves it.

I think it comes down to confidence sometimes, its like its inbuilt in some women and some men feel uneasy about talking with a baby so its up to us to encourage them.

I think the men di an ok job considering, can't be easy in front of camera, give them a chance!

Both of my children attend this setting and I can honestly say that I do not think that there is a better nursery for my children, even when I moved home and looked for other nurseries the 1 hour journey to keep my children here was a lot more appealing than any of the nurseries that I looked at.

As a very hands on parent I was around most days when this documentary was filmed and saw first hand that the men were very carefully supervised by staff members at all times. I think everyone needs to remember that this programme was edited to make the men fail.

With regards to the views which were seen to be sexist. This programme was filmed over more than a week but most of the footage shown was only of the first day when obviously from the things that the men had said the staff, and the parents who spoke to them, were convinced that there was no hope for the men!!! I had conversations with Garry throughout the week and in the first few days I myself thought he did not stand a chance in hell of changing.

RaPaPaPumPumBootyMum- Your comments about Bianca seem a little unfair as you are basing them entirely on editing. Bianca is in no way arrogant, she is in fact a very friendly, caring and devoted manager who is adored by the parents and children alike. I personally find your comments very arrogant, you try managing a nursery of 100 children with 40 staff and try to maintain relationships and levels of care the way Bianca does. Bianca is the most caring nursery manager that I could wish for managing the care of my children and I know the other parents at the nursery feel the same way. The nursery is large and yet she still manages to know every child personally and know every parent personally. Her care and passion for the children is clear for all to see and I personally am very proud of her and I know other parents at the nursery feel the same way. She coped very well under a lot of pressure during filming and made sure that parents and children were kept happy during the filming process.

As stated my Jussi the nursery does employ male staff, Bianca even encouraged her brother to join the nursery and he has been a great asset and the children love him!!! Currently 5 men work at the nursery and parents were skeptical when they first began employing them but Bianca worked hard to dispel any stereotypes and to address any concerns that parents had about men working with and providing intimate care for children. Hardly seems like she is promoting sexism does it???

Anyway my rant is going on too long!!!! I just wanted to set a few points straight and remind you all that this is TV for gods sake.

outofbodyexperience we had mums on strike where mums went on a spa break and left dad to run the home and look after the children. I wrongly assumed from the Daddy Daycare adverts that it would be similar not putting them in a nursery. A nursery is a completely different setting from being in the home and a dad who doesn't know his own children compared to suddenly being thrown into a room in a nursery where children are settled and used to how things work.

I am not posting here about the nursery, I work in a nursery and have seen how different all nurseries are. I also think we need more men in childcare but men who are trained not thrown in at the deep end!!!
I dont think this programme is really helping these dads to understand being a dad, looking after children in a nursery is very different to looking after your own.
My dd's Dad did do nappies etc when she was very young but the best experience for him was when I went back to work part time when she was 9 months (is now nearly 6) and he had to look after her completely on his own. That is when the confidence grew.

I agree that it seemed they were set up to fail, putting them in a class full of kids 9-5 (or whatever the hours are) is not the same as dealing with their own children in the middle of the night.

That said I did quite like Stefan but thought it was a bit unfair to put him there in the first place because it wasn't that he didn't care, he just didn't have any experience. That comes with time.

So Julie, what did you think of Stefan changing the boys nappy with all the bits on show?

I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure the nursery my children attend would not allow that to be filmed...

And perhaps I am wrong about Bianca, but she did come across as somewhat superior... maybe it was the way she was edited.

Interesting discussion, I may well get flamed for this but I deliberately chose a nursery that does not employ men. I wouldn't be comfortable with any man ( other than dh, who does regularly! ) changing dd. I know there are both female and male weirdos but feel more comfortable with dd's carers at the nursery being female. We're actually not far from where it was filmed either, only realised it was local as I take dd to mud chute farm q regularly.

And I agree with rapapa that whoever is changing a baby and regardless of the baby's sex the genitals should be obscured.

Angel786 I work in a nursery with a male nursery teacher. I don't know what happened in the past but it's only us female nursery staff who change the children if they have a toileting accident.

Thanks Grovee that's interesting as I hadn't realised any distinction woudl be drawn.

I hope you realise that your feelings are wrong Angel.

Well, it's on again in half an hour on channel 4. I'm all set to be pissed off again, but maybe it will be different this week.

Paul seems like a bit of a twat but it might be harsh editing I suppose.

Nothing to do with bad editing re Paul.

He does seem like a complete twunt!

I think it's so sad that men working in a nursery has been portrayed so badly.

DS1s nursery workers are all female. But, they had a late teens guy there recently (Assistant Managers brother) doing work experience. The kids loved him, he was really involved with all of the play, and DS still talks about him frequently.

Wasted opportunity to try to encourage more males into nursery work.