15 kids and counting

[AKissIsNotAContract]

Starting in 15minutes on channel 4. Anyone else going to watch this?

Angel I think that example is so rare and extreme and unlikely and unusual it's not really a useful contribution to the debate, it's just a bit distressing.

angel was that in the UK, i would be HUGELY suprised, if a baby was clearly failing to thrive with bfeeding and if medical staff knew there was a problem (as you are saying they advised supplement feeds) then the medical staff would have got others involved if they had to, even SS if a couple were clearly refusing to supplement a baby that was getting so little milk it was dehydrated, in that case i am pretty sure a baby would if necessary be forcibly hospitalised and given the treatment necessary, drip. formula etc.

anyway i finally watched this yesterday, have to say the morecombe family just seemed very normal but with loads of kids, they clearly had a happy family life and supportive relatives etc.

the other family also seemed happy but i worried re the home educating (and i have home ed so think its a good thing to do) and also re the mothers health. and tbh i do worry when a family uses religion as a reason to not provide sex education etc and she seemed very worried re 'outside' influences.

It was in the UK and only used as an example because of saturdayescape's comment. So it's not okay for me to bring up a distressing example of BF-ing gone wrong but okay for saturdayescape to say BF-ing mothers are more maternal? Puhlllllleeeeeeeeeaaasseee.

But it's an example of child abuse not breast feeding gone wrong. Plus strange none of us have ever heard of it, as if it was just breast feeding it would be in the papers and mum prosecuted! I think there must have been a lot more going on there than just breast feeding gone wrong.

People's choice to breastfed or artificial feed is very personal, very emotive, and I really think it is damaging for EITHER side to throw about words like 'unmaternal', or stories about dead babies.

what abridinthehand just said!

seriously there must have been MORE to the story you have been told angel, because the authorities WOULD step in and prevent a baby from dying of dehydration in circumstances like that. having googled i cant find any stories from within the UK like that.

" if you are that maternal then surley you would want to BF?"

I don't think bf-ing indicates that a mother is more maternal than a non-bfing mother at all.

With regards to the Kent family and their Catholicism, am I wrong or did it say she had two before he met him and then had the rest?

If so, she either had sex before marriage, or is divorced and remarried - neither option is "right" in the eyes of the Catholic church. So to use their religion as a reason for not using contraception is hypocritical!

And I say this as a divorced Catholic who had sex before marriage and is living in sin (and up the duff at that)

Yes, Juule I agree.
I am amazed some people honestly believe you're lacking in the 'maternal' department if you have chosen not to breastfeed for whatever reason.

saturdayescape if putting your nasty point of view across makes you feel like a better mother then go ahead. I'm sure your child/ren will grow up knowing their mother was soo much more loving/maternal than my children will...

just read this apparently not catholic and lots of bad editing in prog

Don't be ridiculious angel, scaremongering bullshit.

Yes, and you would know saturdayescape...

Well you obviously don't Angel back at ya

Breastfed baby risk investigated

Telegraph article

So we are assuming all the babies who were dehydrated (due to breastfeeding or bottle-feeding, I couldn't care less, every mother can make their own choice for their babies) survived? It states in the article the worst case scenario is death. Anyway, I'm done here. I've got a tropical holiday to go off to tomorrow... :)

giraffes I do think it's foolish for anyone to go on a TV programme and assume it won't be edited to serve the programme-maker's agenda. I remember the same argument when we were discussing the tiger mums programme here but the programme maker has to make his/her programme interesting and right or wrong, they do tend to 'heighten' the subject's 'differences' (from the public's general opinion) to make it newsworthy...

Oh so that proves your friends friends friends friends baby died from this?

saturdayescape " if you are that maternal then surley you would want to BF?"

What a dreadful statement

but those articles dont say that any babies HAVE actually died, given that the guardian one came out today i would have thought it would have included ANY deaths that have occured from this? like i said i dont believe it would happen in the UK as the relevant authorities would step in and insist the baby was given formula or a drip.

agree gentleoffer. What a ridiculous thing to say

Errr my baby ended up in SCBU severely dehydrated due to bf and it wasn't my fault.Sorry it can happen and you can easily be unaware how sick your baby is when you have a midwife saying continuously it's common for bf babies to loose a lot of weight.

we are not saying that babies dont get ill, just questioning the fact that a friend of a friend has a baby that HAS died from this, i would have thought it would have been reported AND that it would have been mentioned in the articles the poster linked to.

my sisters baby was readmitted very recently due to sevre jaundice and feeding issues etc, he is now thriving and putting on a pound a week, bfed! so thankfully the issues were resolved.

i would still say that in the UK midwives/hv etc would make sure that a baby was admitted and treated and a parent who was refusing to give formula/expressed milk or other treatments to a baby at risk of dying WOULD have their wishes overruled, hospitals would go to court if they had to.

regardless tho bfeeding isnt linked to being maternal in anyway! i bfed 3 of mine and then with the last two switched to bottles, i am no less maternal now than i was when i had the first 3! i just did what worked at the time and suited us as a family :)

and yes its common for babies to loose weight but a midwife or hv should still check that a baby is weeing etc, any signs that a baby is NOT weeing or that a baby is very sleepy, not alert or any other signs of dehydration, should be taken very seriously. if they are not then the midwife is at fault tbh.

and babies sadly go downhill so quick, i truely believe it does happen sadly :(

There is a difference between a breastfed baby dehydrating due to the mother having insufficient support in latch etc and being admitted, to what angel said - a mother refusing to supplement her baby's diet and the baby dying, despite medical advice.

The first is rare, unfortunate, not mums fault, and rarely fatal.

The second is criminal, and not evidence that breeders are not maternal - just like artificial feeding is not evidence.

saturdays posts should be deleted
ill informed,judgemental and frankly wrong

"breeders" ?

I think breeders should have been bfeeders in abirds post

Oh. Thanks :) Bit of an unfortunate typo there:o