Downton Abbey

[missmogwi]

Bloody mum rang to ask me about how much Internet she can use before it's full. Don't ask.

Why did bates have to leave?? Aaargh missed crucial bit!

Cora

Ah - thank you :)

I keep mixing Elizabeth McGovern up with Andie MacDowell. It's a combination of similar names, similar looks and similar acting styles.

Further to limited dramatic range: I was expecting that officer who flirted with Ethel to twiddle his moustache and say: 'Ding, dong' when the housekeeper shooed her away.

Or a Barbara Windsor-style giggle after Ethel smirks "Nobody TUCKS better than me- oooh I say, hahahahahahaha!"

Loved Psychicsatsumas plot syopsis and prediction. I don't like Branston he is vair vair creepy.
I dislike Isobel even more, she has got on my tits since series one. Her and Cora are just having a pissing contest about who is better.
I would stop watching it, but I've come this far, I'll carrry on, plus DD adores it and hisses at Thomas. It's like a panto in our house on Monday evenings.

Laughing at Simon Cowell, before Princess Anne.
Thought this weeks was a bit weak. Lavinia, oh she stole some papers. Is that IT ? She wasn't sleeping with Newspaper sir R, she wasn't raped by him, or had his child, or SOMETHING. Come on, that was really naff.

"surely the first daughter of the Queen goes before the Queens granddaughters. Also how come Savannah Phillips goes before the lovely Zara Philips "

Because it´s the Queen´s sons & their children before Anne & her children.

Savannah after Peter because if he were to inherit the throne it would then move down his "line" iyswim.

I assume if William & Kate have a daughter she will be in line after William.

But if they then had a son-would he displace the daughter?

Looks as if males still take preference as Edward´s son is before his daughter even though she is older.

I hate Isobel too. It's the way she blithely sends people to be shot to pieces or drives them to suicide to free up beds for the good of the nation.

Hang on a moment. Is it too late for the Government to amend their White Paper on health service reforms?

Hysterically laughing at this thread!

Thank God I'm not the only DA fanatic!

Yes, diddl, as the law stands at the moment if W and K have a son he would displace any daughter they may have already had.

Belgium has changed its laws - we will have a queen after the next king.

had a son

Oooh, that would be a scandal wouldn't it, if we were to find out they already have a son!

The Royal succession prioritises male heirs but does not prevent a female inheriting nor does it preclude inheritance through the female line though inheritance through the male line comes first.

So the present Queen has her eldest son has her heir and Princess Ann comes way after all their descendants whether female or male. That's why Prince Andrew's daughters are nearer the throne than Princess Ann.

However in the world of landed titled folk it is relatively rare for this to apply and titles (and estates attached to them) follow the male line ONLY. This means that Mary et al could have 15 sons apiece and none would ever inherit because their connection to the title is through the female line.

To go back to the family tree - picture this (made up example):

Robert 1st Earl of Grantham has three sons and two daughters.

His oldest son Robert has a son, Robert who becomes the 2nd Earl and he has a son who becomes the third Earl and he has a son who becomes the 4th Earl. The third Earl we presume had at least one other son who also had male descendants. They were the back up heirs till the Titanic came along and were Lord 's first cousin/second cousin descended through the 'senior' line. The 4th Earl marries Dame Maggie and has at least two children - Lord G and Lady Grumpy.

To go back to the 1st Earl - his younger son - lets call him Matthew would be Lord Matthew Crawley (I think) and he has a son who has a son who has a son (Matthew's father - by which time any title is totally wiped out and he's just plain Mr) and he has a son - Matthew. This would be a 'cadet' branch of the family and in the event of the senior line failing - no males - it comes in to it's own.

The 1st Earls other son also either has descendants who are:

a) all female - and thus the title cannot pass down through and to them
b) dead
c) non existant
or d) male and descended through the male line but Matthew comes first because Lord Matthew is the older brother.

The 1st Earls daughters - just for fun (or confusion) called Mary, Edith and Sybil also have descendants but none will ever be heir because their 'claim' is through the female line.

An exception to this rule is the Dukedom of Marlborough which has descended through the female line.
If you want to see a modern day Downton like example look at the Dukes of Atholl. the 11th duke is the second cousin once removed of his predecessor - who never married or had children.

Hopefully that's clearer?

Blimey Northern - you know your stuff! That's impressive, and very well explained - thank you.

"It's the way she blithely sends people to be shot to pieces or drives them to suicide to free up beds for the good of the nation."

Who did she do that to?

There was the blinded chap who she wouldn't let stay in the hospital who committed suicide - was that the week before last?

But then the doctor chap wouldn't let him stay either?

Oh, getting people shot to pieces, didn't she undermine someone who Maggie Smith had had excused from being called up or something? Her servant chappy (have I got this the right way round - Maggie Smith had had the doctor chap excuse him and Isobel told them he was fine and he was going to get called up? Although I think he was fine (ish) just didn't want to go?

I thought that it was the Dr who insisted that the blinded soldier leave.

But why should Violet decide who does & doesn´t get called up?

The Royal example which illustrates thr opposite of this - descent through the female line is very interesting (imo)

When Queen Anne died she had no surviving child. Her siblings were her older sister (Queen Mary, wife of William of Orange - also dead) and James - known as the Old Pretender - ruled out by being catholic as were all his descendants)

So the search for a protestant heir went back up the family tree -

Anne's line has failed and her siblings are dead or the wrong religion - so that means the line of James II has failed. James himself inherited the throne when his brother Charles II died without an heir of either sex - so no heirs there. Charles and James had siblings - the other children of Charles 1st. A number of these died young. Two princesses had children. Mary (a different Mary) had a son - William of Orange (Holland) who married James' daughter Mary - but they had no children and so that line too failed. The youngest daughter of Charles 1st had children - but she was married to a French prince and so her children would be both the wrong religion and politically unacceptable. So Charles ist's line fails in terms of providing an heir. So you go back another generation. Chares 1st was the younger son of James 1st. His older brother died without heirs - which is why Charles got his paws on the crown at all and there was a sister - Elizabeth. She married a german prince and had a fairly miserable and complicated life but she produced 13 children.
By 1714 when Queen Anne died these had all died but the youngest - Sophia - who also died in 1714 - had a son (alleluia) who was a protestant (alleluia again). So he bagged the lot and came over to England from Hanover and became George 1st. That's how we came to have a King who couldn't speak English. According to Wikipedia at the time he succeeded there were over 50 other relations with closer claims but they were all Catholics.

Violet has been deciding what happens to the dependants of the estate for about 45 years - I guess it's habit forming!

It was the butler, admittedly creepy because he's sniffing around Anna, who claimed to have bad chest (true, I think) and William who's keen as mustard
gas but whose dad doesn't want him to go.

Perhaps they should go. I know Isobel's son Matthew is there and she feels they should join him, but just keep out of it, you interfering bat. They'll get their call-up papers and perish in the mud soon enough.

I liked Lady Violet's outburst that they'd have Cousin Isobel to thank if they died on a foreign field

Oh and the blind chap who just wanted to have some friendly helpers like Sybil and Thomas around him for a while, but who slit his wrists rather than being sent away by Isobel and Dr Wotsname with the sandy moustache.

However, I suspect Thomas's motives may not have been entirely selfless by the way he laid a meaningful hand on the blind chap's hand.

diddl Violet shouldn't get to decide but years of corruption at the Downton Horticultural Show would go to someone's head.

But the Dr has prevented them being called up on the say so of Violet, hasn´t he?

That´s not right, is it?

Isobel´s butler or whatever looks to old to be called up anyway.

"diddl Violet shouldn't get to decide but years of corruption at the Downton Horticultural Show would go to someone's head."

Yes, what a power trip!