The Incident Room (aka The Killing - Thread 2)

[atswimtwolengths]

Bring your notebooks, your whiteboards, your clipboards, your pens, your tape measures and your waterways maps to solve the problem of what happened to Nanna Birk Larsen.

Prolesworth - yes, what is the flat business all about? I couldnt get a handle on that one

Just on to apologise for not contributing to the thread.

I got quite overcome last weekend and had to stay off here! It got too much for me!

The ideas were just jumping around the thread and I agreed with nearly everything. I now need to get a clipboard (I'm serious!) and write down all of the comments that I agree with and then have a good think about them.

I think what it is, is that you lot have made it TOO exciting! I just want to be still alive after the finale.

I think the speculation must be getting close to the truth now but I am loving the metaphors. The colour theory from betty was as impressive as the Cicero and Faust parallels.

So no doubt we'll see inside the house soon ...

Prolesworth Thanks for suggesting watching the early episodes on itunes. I joined them and watched episode 1 last night. I now only miss episode 2.
Still think it is a stupid rule of the BBC Trust to allow only 13 episodes of the same show on iplayer.

I love all your theories.

May I add something I noticed while watching episode 1. Bremer must have been having Hartmann followed or Morten is really working for Bremer. Just before the (cancelled) debate in the school Bremer starts talking about how Hartmann's Dad was full of ideas but weak and "fragile". And it was right after Hartmann tried to kill himself.

My DH had chickenpox was I missed the first two episodes, so I did not realise how blissfully happy Rie and Pernille were. I mean not with each other. Obviously.
Also that Nanna was not meant to be found. It was Lund's sheer determination / obsession that led the police to find her body...

some intweresting stuff scancrime.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/112/ here if you are into Crime novels...(no spoilers I think...)

ginger I agree that body wasn't meant to be found but the stuff on the heath and the political flat was always going to be so did the baddie want the police to know that a crime had been committed but never the body? Seems weird...

Hmmmmmm. Knitter You are so right.

knitter that was something i mused about earlier on upthread

if it was deliberate, and mr creepy is the guilty party, maybe he wanted theis and pernille to know something had happened to nanna so they would not put their lives on hold to go searching for her. and maybe he did not want them to have hope they would find her again, which might make nanna not completely "his" in his mind.

or the fact he had betrayed his friends and employers hit home and he was careless but that seems odd when he is so particular otherwise

Does indeed seem inconsistent. And I still don't understand why her stuff was there. Baddie must have chased her through the woods to there but as she was only wearing her slip at that point why did he dump the stuff there - much neater to put it all into the car and then into the river with her... where it was probably never going to be found.

Can we explore the woods scene a bit more...?

Opening scenes show her running through the woods - yes?

But she was found dead in the car..?

It was said by the pathologist that she drowned, was put in the boot alive?

Hold those thoughts.

Back to the flat evidence. She had clearly been attacked at the flat. Yes.

How was she removed from the flat? The lift was out of order. Look at the chunk of hair found on the radiator, she must have been unconscious, surely? Blood everywhere it appeared.

She must have been carried out, so were there witnesses? Lund said the lift was out of order, so culprit had to of used the stairs?

If unconscious.... how long for? HOw long was she held on a cement floor for?

Back to the woods.

If after a period of time of being held captive, she was taken to the woods, where did culprit initially park the car?

How about this... held captive and she escapes from car... and starts running in woods of own accord, chase begins.

She is caught and taken back to the car? tied up and put in the boot.

Other consideration.... where does the ether come into it? How about, it was used when she was held captive, to keep her quiet? Don't think it would have been used in the flat as she had banged her head.... unless she did not fall unconcsious.?

Would anyone be able to put a time-line together for us all? especially now we cannot back track due to episodes being wiped on iPlayer.

Time-line of events would be good.

Hi Wolfgirl Here's a few thoughts:After the flat attack, the pathologist said she was held on the cement floor for 15-20 hours, during which time she was repeatedly raped and ether-ed. She was then washed, as her abraisions from the floor were clean, and then she went to the woods. So the cement floor place has a shower/bath available...

The messy flat/trail of her posessions seems so out of kilter with the cutting of nails/cleaning up, that I' m still pondering the 2 attackers theory: one rapist at the flat, for whatever motive, and one serial nutter, with the cement floor and kit to restrain/drug.

The only problem with this is getting the party car from the flat to the woods, unless her attacker No 1 left her in the flat, and someone else found her there and took her to the woods? Whoever took the car must have known that those keys in the flat were for that car in the car park - you wouldn't waste time with a victim in tow, trying doors in the car park, I don't think.

She could well have escaped from the car, and her stuff fall out wth her: None of her things were found at the flat, were they?

The attacker in the opening shot seems very confident of catching her in the woods, not running or anything......

So many loose ends - so few episodes left!

Though having said that re the car keys, you could just beep the lock from the window that overlooks the carpark, and see which car flashes, I suppose.....

Do we know how far Troels cottage is from the woods where Nanna was chased. Couldn't he have done something to Nanna, tried to top himself while she was ethered and then Morten discovers him sorts him out and tidies up Nanna into the river...

After the flat attack, the pathologist said she was held on the cement floor for 15-20 hours

***

OK, agreed then - she was taken from flat to new holding place, for a nearly a day\night.

Perp... must have been furious mad to have knocked her about at flat, move her, repeatedly raped her, then went on to kill her.

Need to think and outline possible motives, now we have a timeline.

Oh, and why cut her nails? did she scratch him, so it was done to remove evidence?

How long was it that she was killed, before she was found? Because if she did scratch someone, they might have had scratch marks... we have not seen that on any of the suspects?

Perhaps the cutting of the nails is the serial killers M.O ?

How did perp get home from dumping car in river?

I think I am ruling Troels out.... unless Morten really was his accomplice. By the way... was the cottage examined for a cement floor, garage, basement?

Attacker not running in woods.... perhaps he\she knew she was still woosesy\drugged up from ether, and could not get very far. Perhaps it was his\her last psychopath attempt at instilling utter fear in her. Giving her hope to escape, but then chasing her.

No, she was moved from the flat, else she would not have abrasions from being on cement floor; but how was she moved without being seen, and espesh if lift was broken. Perp must have used stairs.

What about Rama's flat.... yeah, back to him; although he is meant to have had an albi... no, wait. still not sure about that, because it all starts back at the flat....unless Rama was there, knocked her about a bit.

What was Rama's albi in the end, again? I forget.

knitter... no, not sure about that one. She had been severely attacked at the flat, then moved. I think we know that bit now.

Back to nail clipping bit....no, hang on.. Just zapped my new theory, of Lund needing to examine the other girls files, to see if they had their nails clipped, but we won't know that - becasue they are classed as 'missing'

So we don't know if this is an M.O of a serial killer. Mmmmm.... deeper and deeper we go.

Troels cottage has a cement floor - but there was no forensic evidence found, despite a good search.

Cement floors we have met to date are: Birk Larsens garage(home)
Birk Larsens Warehouse, where Rama was beaten up. Rama had a cement floor, but he was busy sorting out the girl on the run that weekend. Holk's garage.

I spy a hole in the taxi drivers tale: If I asked a taxi driver to wait, I would expect to pay him at my final destination - not at each stage - he had waited for her once, because he said she was pretty, while she went to City Hall to collect the key: Then he says she asked him to wait, but as it was friday he left as he could get more fares: Why did he not wait for her to pay him? But he had receipts, I think: So did he forge those? Would he not have gone and looked for her to get his payment? Perhaps he found her, in the flat, and saw his chance.....
Think it might actually be Leon, but the red herring this week will be Vagn.

Leon could have taken her to his hiding place, and then resumed his taxi service to create an alibi until he had time to go back. He could have pocketed the keys from the flat to use the car later, knowing that this would create a false lead to other parties.

Re taxi Q... she may have gotten out, paid him... then thought she might need him again, so asked him to wait. But, yes - perculiar, agreed.

re taxi presumably she asked him to wait again - he'd waited at city hall while she got keys - and he decided he was fed up of waiting so said no so she paid him and got out...

Knitter... yep, good one

He said (if you believe him) that she asked him to wait a second time, but it was Friday night and he knew he'd get another fare so he didn't bother... IIRC

Still want to know how she was got out of flat if lift was bust.....

With the taxi if Vagn did do it how did Vagn follow Nanna to the flat? Wouldn't Leon have seen him? Also as the flat had a key to the door at ground floor as well as another key to the flat itself whoever it was must have followed Nanna closely as the ground floor door wasn't damaged was it - so the baddie wouldn't have had to force it...

Also did they ever find her passport? In the flat? in her stuff?

Vagually wondering if lift might have got broken that night by baddie wedging it open as they put Nanna in it....? Maybe Troels did use it but it was broken after that but before landlord noticed in the morning....

knitter... vagually? another mystery!

:) vaguely :)

You're right - the biggest mystery is my spelling!!