Big Fat Gypsy Weddings (8/2)

[juneybean]

I did feel for Violet, leaving a perfectly nice home with her parents to live in a small caravan on a trailer park in the middle of what looked like a motorway junction in Slough. Poor girl. And she's stuck there all day every day. And only gets to visit her parents if her husband decides it's OK.

Wonder if one aspect of poor health amongst travellers is growing up in places like that? Air pollution must be terrible - can imagine it would trigger asthma in anyone susceptible. There was traveller site in Shepherd's Bush surrounded by dual carriageways on three sides.

Oh, and re. bare knuckle fighting - according to QI it is actually safer than 'proper' legal boxing. Boxing gloves allow fighters to inflict graver injuries - if you are fighting with your bare hands, there's a limit on how hard you can punch without doing yourself an injury. Wouldn't like to test the theory out myself, mind...

We have a 'gipsy' site 3 miles down the road,in the glorious countryside.

They aren't all stuck on main A/B roads.It is rare to have a site like our local one,I do realise that.

I've worked with some gypsies (as a teen) with horses,they were a good sort and respectable towards me and towards their livestock.

I can only judge by my experience and the gypsies that I came in contact with.

I love the way they're calling thing like beating the shit out of each other and getting pissed 'tradtion' - wow, yes we must preserve those.

I've heard that too edam - bare knuckle fighters tended not to hit each other in the face or head, so there was a lesser likelihood of serious brain injury than when wearing gloves.

I didn't think the graveside party was that bad really, my parents live in an area with lots of Italian immigrants and you should see the graves - huge photographs, elaborate statues and carvings, massive fake flower arrangements, and yes they definitely have a bit of a party/picnic on special days. One young chap was killed in a car crash and there was a gravestone in the shape of a Ford Escort . We were in Mexico once on the Day of the Dead and they were picnicking by their family graves, so not an uncommon tradition. Didn't see any cans of Fosters though!

I quite liked Paddy and his wife, although I agree Paddy seemed the sort who could be quite nasty if he needed to. I felt so sorry for them that they had lost so many children, how awful. It was obvious how much he thought of his son and if grieving in the way they do helps them, who are we to comment? We don't know if they would have avoided funerals or toned things down if other mourners were present.

I do think there is a lot about their culture to be admired, but equally a lot that is very wrong. From some of the things Paddy was saying though it is clear that some of the men at least realise that their ways can be somewhat old fashioned and it would be nie to think as generations go on some things will change.

I'm looking forward to next weeks episode. I think it's very sad that Violet had to hide the fact she was a traveller from her boss. She seemed a lovely girl.

I was a bit about the party at the graveside too, but it is hard to judge unless we know all the facts, and the programme didn't tell us what they'd do if there was another funeral going on, or if other mourners asked them to keep it down a bit. The fact that they treat church seriously might suggest that they'd be respectful of another funeral going on, but my suspicion is that they'd be less bothered about the feelings of visitors to other graves. Obviously I have no evidence for that, though.

It clearly is important to Paddy to remember his son (and he did say why the firstborn was so important to him - though I wonder if the same would have applied if his firstborn had been a girl), and it did seem to be important and helpful to his wife too, and I think I'm OK with it, as long as there is respect for other mourners at the cemetary too.

Mexican day of the dead ceremonies are different though- you're talking about a national celebration that happens once a year and everyone participates.

In this case I think the idea is nice but sitting on other people's gravestones drinking beer shows an appalling lack of respect. I bet Paddy wouldn't be happy if he found someone sitting on his son's grave drinking booze...
They could easily have a service/moment/family remembrance by the graveside and then a big party somewhere else.

SDT'sG sadly I agree with your suspicion.

Someone asked if travellers and gypsies got on well together.In my experience,no,they dislike each other and will not willingly share a site.

Violet Ann seemed lovely,I felt sorry for her stuck in a caravan in Slough,can't imagine it is going to be easy for her.

Watching her wedding reminded me that I have been to a gypsy wedding-it was so like a normal wedding that I'd forgotten about it.The only difference was that the bride had a lot of bridemaids and pageboys,all dressed very ornately,but nothing to scare the horses.Both families dealt in scrap and cars.

Romany gypsies that my gt aunt knew were very negative about Irish tinkers as they called them, and other less flattering terms, no idea if that is widespread.

does anyone know why this isn't available on 4OD?

www.channel4.com/programmes/big-fat-gypsy-weddings/4od

Looks like it hasn't been uploaded yet, just keep an eye out!

Hi, I've been waiting to see this too, but I've just looked in the paper and it's repeated tonight on channel 4 at five past eleven, if that helps anybody.

Kangaroo, a Tinker is not a gypsy traveller as such, they were highly skilled craftsmen who travelled alone repairing machinery mainly for farmers and have no connection at all to the travellers seen on the t.v series. These tinkers were highly skilled coppersmiths and tinsmiths as well as being engineers and mechanics for the time, they largely died out around 1900-1915 when most had to travel to the industrial north of Ireland to seek work after the English stole their land, banned education, crop growing and livestock ownership, anyone who could not speak English was not allowed to speak at all under fear of death. To speak their native language meant they would normally be beat to death or drowned as they were deemed unfit to waste a bullet on, hence the very low population in Ireland with ROI having only 4 million and N.Ireland having only 1.7 million which in total is a lot less than London alone.

The Romany gypsies my gt-aunt knew used the term 'tinker' pejoratively as they did 'traveller' (not sure now, having read what you've put, conculainey, if they meant one and the same, I thought they were using the word interchangeably, but they were definitely dismissive) and saw themselves as craftspeople, living simply and from the land. Travellers/tinkers weren't gypsies, they were, and spoke dismissively of them all owning homes in Ireland, claiming benefits here and not being of the road...so the same prejudices really.