Toast, anyone?

[Numberfour]

Nothing else on that I can see, and I don't particularly like Nigel Slater.... but so far the show seems very watchable.

But she was awful to him in the film I'm surprised you cant see that. When NS was brave enough to do home economics at school as a family they agreed that on a Wednesday he would provide the evening meal etc. it was evident in the film that he so wanted to please his father, he wanted his father to be proud of him, she then decided to ruin this opportunity by deliberately cooking early and completely sabotaging this arrangement.This was cruel, her attitude and behaviour towards him in the film was appalling. He was the child and she the adult, although she was acting like a child.
I dont like snobbery but none of us are perfect.When people have difficult childhoods it is going to have a massive impact if being a snob is the only issue he has then he hasnt done too badly. He has worked extremely hard in his life to get where he is today.

But wasn´t the father also at fault?

Couldn´t he have told his wife not to cook on whatever day or that they would eat her meal the next day?

He seemed as if he didn´t care at all when his dad died.

He did come across as a snob, but equally I think that he adored his mum & woulldn´t have accepted any other female tbh.

I don't think the 'abuse' was that bad. As I've already said, NS glosses over the sexual abuse and focusses on the abuse of having to compete with his step-mother as to who makes the best lemon meringue. That seems weird to me.

As for the snobbery thing, to be honest I'm just pissed off with post after post on various threads where people seem to think it's OK to have a go at the 'lower classes.' I'm taking a zero tolerance attitude. I don't give a fuck that it may be a one-woman crusade and that other people may mock me but it's making me feel better. Your post about snobbery being no big deal fucked me off no end, hence why I'm still banging on about it.

That was to Oonagh btw.

I am relating it to his story as I suggested earlier.When you consider the loss, isolation, verbal and physical abuse he has had to endure, he has had a tough life,it is irrelevant to what class society deems him to be in.If he is a snob so what I dont care, its still not a reason to dislike someone. I have a variety of friends who are snobs but they are not bad people.None of us are perfect.

I certainly did not state that it was ok to have a go at the lower classes.

I find your last post really rude and offensive.

Diddl Yes, I think you're right about him being Daniel in Lark Rise to Candleford.

I'll have to google the cast of Downton now to see if that's him also, but I think I may have got that wrong....

just to add to the snobbery thing, i have not read his book(s), but i really dont think he is snob one bit, he has cooked for and with many different classes of people in past tv work.

it is harsh to link his work to threads displaying snobbery here on mn totaly irrelevant.

I think that he was trying to portait how the loss of his mother had an impact on his standard of life and care and this came through very well, not sure a 9 year old boy can really be classed as a snob at all.

'I have a variety of friends who are snobs but they are not bad people.'

I'm sorry but if they are snobs, they are, in my opinion bad people.

Tom I agree, a 9 year old boy who has lost his mother who he clearly adored does not deserve to be classed a snob.His Father did not give him much support if any and was physically abusive.IMO children need support and love in times of grief.His mother was replaced extremely quickly, for any child this is really difficult and I think any child would feel anger, betrayal and a real mixture of difficult emotions.

I admire people who work hard and achieve success.He clearly has had a difficult childhood and despite this has managed to become successful ( through hard work) rather than sitting back and feeling sorry for himself.

Nobody is doubting that he needed love, support etc when his mother died. Anybody who has been through that knows how catastrophic such a loss is. His feeling were very complex and in many ways he clearly blamed his step mother for imposing herself on him and his father. Perhaps she ought to have been more sensitive to this. However, part of him clearly did not like her because she didn't fit in at the Masonic Hall. NS doesn't try to pretend otherwise. And if this was down to being a greiving nine year old why rake it up in such a smug way as an adult? It's the fifty year old NS I'm disliking rather than the vulnerable child.

As for the snobbery thing, firstly tomhardy, it isn't for you to say what should or shouldn't be talked about on this thread. It is an opportunity for all views to be ventilated.

Oonagh. I think I'm getting the measure of you and will be steering well clear from now on

likewise jonie and secondly?

I do apologise

And to be honest tomhardy, having re-read your post at 22.00 I hardly think you have room to talk about badly structured/written sentences

get a grip joni

I think everyone is taking this a bit too seriously. The book is superb and puts everything in a much better context. He talks a lot about middle class snobbery and how he wasn't allowed certain foods as his mum thought they were common.

Also, mrs potter is far more unlikeable. HBC portrayed her very much as tart with a heart. Also, a lot was exaggerated for dramatic effect.

As for sexual abuse. This was overplayed in the drama but in the book there are a few experiences which today would bs classed as abuse but at the time were nor seen as such. There was an uncle who got him to fish sweets out of his trouser pocket. Am not getting into debate here but just because it happened it doesn't mean that he was emotionally damaged by it. There is nothing to say that je was abused by the gardener.

"HBC portrayed her very much as tart with a heart."

I don´t think she did tbh.

When he & his father first moved to the country, she threatened him, didn´t she?

That she given everything up, couldn´t go back, & was there to stay at all cost?

"it's the fifty year old NS I'm disliking rather than the vulnerable child"

If you've watched Nigel Slater's tv programmes or read his books (I know you haven't read Toast) does he come across as being a snob these days?

It didn't come across to me that he was "rak(ing) it up in such a smug way as an adult" - to me, it was more like showing how he was influenced in his perceptions as a 9 year old child, which were flawed.

I agree with fruitstick the book is superb, Mrs Potter comes across as cold and uncaring apart from when a fox killed his rabbit and she comforted him.

Joni- 'I think Im getting the measure of you'

You cant be serious! you are judging me after a few posts on a mumsnet thread,OMG this is ridiculous.

that was so rude

but i got the impression that she tried very hard at first, and NS's behaviour towards her was horrible. i rather got the impression that her having a go at him at the new house was the result of exasperation! she started a relationship with a man who's first wife had died quite recently and his son made it very clear that she wasnt welcome.

he tried to bully her in his own way and was in no way totally innocent, he was a snob and used her class as a reason that she shouldnt be there. she lost her patience. who wouldnt? the only thing (it seemed) that she could do better than NS's mother was cook, then NS tried to barge her out with that. by that point he was a teenager, and while you might be able to forgive a young boy's behaviour, when he carries it through to young adulthood it becomes unforgivable imo.

I don't think he was a 'snob', his views simply reflect how society was in those days, as anyone who is old enough to remember may agree.

There are some interesting pieces about NS and HBC on the BBC website.

oh, and i agree that snobbery is abhorrent.

tomhardy and Oonagh

wewishyouamerrylissiemas. I agree

agree to differ or i will bang your heads together -

it was only a tv programme fgs