I need advice on how to help my niece she is going off the rails and no-one has noticed! (long sorry)

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Ok the background, my niece is 13yo (soon to be 14) she has a terrible relationship with her parents and I am not close to them (there is a very big age gap). Recently her mother reacted in shock when I told her that it was against the law to smack or physically punish a child her words were "good job you told me" TBH I was too shocked to react.

DN is going through a tough teenge time, she walks out of school at will, stays up untill midnight on school nights and generally will not accept any authority at all. DSis has been going through a tough time for years, she has never engaged with her dc and never really cared much, she openly admits she wishes she had never had them (in front of them) and has days where she "can't be bothered to feed them" and so on. As they are older now they tend to fend for themselves.

SO, I have been aware of problems for a while and have tried again and again to get her mother to see it but she cannot seem to get the energy together to care and I am at a loss as to how to help given that her mother is not going to do anything other than scream at her...Her mother is also convinced DN is very innocent and does not really understand the outside world.

Problem 1; She is on Bebo, I know that she has friends on bebo that are adult and that she adds and chats to people who approach her - people she does not know at all, complete strangers.

Problem 2; she goes to nightclubs with friends, some her own age but I suspect also with her older friends too.

Problem 3; drinks, vodka and the like.

Problem 4; stays at friends houses and goes out drinking etc until 3 or 4 am.

Problem 5; her facebook is full of pictures of her posing in model type poses, including pics of her in her underwear - see through camis and thongs etc. The privacy settings allow friends of friends to see her photos (ie around 30,000 or more people)

Problem 6; when she is up late at night she is on networking sites and messenger with a webcam in a seperate room by herself, no-one checks on her at all. I know that some of her older friends have asked her to "pose" for them... I have no idea what else they have asked her to do or whether she has done what they asked. SHe is proud of and flattered by the attention.

Most of the above I have found out from my own teenage daughter and DN posts on facebook. I don't have a strong relationship with her as we have never lived close and I suspect it is too late to start one up now. I am nervous of getting my daughter involved, dd told dn how silly she was for accepting friend requests from people she did not know on bebo and got a serious dressing down from DN.

The problem is that her mother thinks she is innocent, doesn't drink, does not really "get" sex and also refuses to see any risk in sites like bebo and facebook, I have told her the statistics of people getting targeted on bebo and so on but she "doesn't buy it". Her mother does not go online and has no clue at all how these sites work.

What on earth can I do to help DN, how can I approach it? I know she is already half a step away from running away all-together and goodness knows where she would end up then! Sorry this is so long I am just at my wits end to know how to help when the parents are not willing/able to help too!

From what you have said above, she does quite a bit more than going on the internet and going to nightclubs.

"No well meaning talk from an auntie will fix years of emotional and/or physical neglect"

Really? TBH I am quite hurt that you think that is what I am driving at here Clive, if I was thinking a little chat would solve it I most certainly would not have posted here would I?

I'm just saying I don't think you can fix this by yourself.

if you believe the child is in danger (as you said above) then I believe it is your duty to alert the authorities.

Over and out.

Yes but that is not how they SS see it CLive. Honestly I don't want to argue with you, I was looking for some ideas suck as maybe a group who's job it is to educate children about dangers of the internet or something, someone I can go to who can directly help her.

I have no confidence SS will help, I have good reason to feel that, please just accept that calling SS is not always the answer for everything that involves a child.

Well, what are you going to do? Everyone here who has replied to your OP has suggested school counselor, social services, counseling for the family if you can persuade them to do it, and these are really the only options short of forcing the girl to come and live with you and making her follow your rules. You have ruled out every suggestion, and you don't think the parents are approachable. It is frustrating to see many common sense replies being shot down by someone who posts with a problem, especially when the reasons for not going with the advice are spurious and based on assumptions (i.e. wrt involving social services)

Thanks Math. That's great.

Cheers Everyone.

Contact the administrators at Bebo? Don't they have any policy wrt teenage girls posting sexually provocative photographs? Similarly facebook.

If you know any of the nightclubs she goes to, ring and warn them that you know they are admitting underage girls. Maybe contact the police about it (to deal with the nightclub owners rather than your niece).

These might, at a pinch, deal with some of the more immediate dangers she is facing. As to the rest, I agree with other posters that a level of attention and counselling is needed that probably requires the intervention of outside agencies. Sorry.

Can I throw my experience into the melting pot?

I was a victim of emotional neglect as a child. My father was a very very distant figure, and my mother was, to put it mildly, cold, and my brother used me as a punch bag when anything went wrong.

I did the classic attention/affection seeking - drinking, revealing clothes, eating disorders and boys way too young and too many. Was very lucky and only got into one serious scrape - I was date raped.

Anyway, my very low self esteem pushed me to academic success and a very high pressured career. All I wanted was approbation. Then I had a performance review which was lukewarm - not the glowing reports I always had. I fell to pieces. I went into a deep
depression and became suicidal. I was very fortunate to have a brilliant GP who referred me to an excellent counsellor and she helped me enormously.

She helped me see that my early experiences had taught me that I was worthless.

Your niece's story rings lots of bells with me. I wish to god someone had picked up the phone (to social services or whoever) and helped me when I was suffering, and I'm very much aware that if I hadn't got the help I needed very quickly, I probably wouldn't be here now.

Please help this child. No-one else will.

The girl's problems go far beyond the internet use you describe. Telling her about the dangers of the internet and what she's doing is going to whet her appetite for more. She seems to me like a child who actively seeks out danger, and inappropriate situations do not scare her enough because she is desperate for the attention. Her mum is wrong and is completely burying her head in the sand because she won't face up to her responsibility in causing her dd's problems.

If she didn't have the internet, she would use some other way to get the attention and affection she is craving. Children brought up in homes where emotional neglect/ abuse and physical neglect are the norm have always acted out sexually and through mischief, and also tend to ditch school. They did this long before the internet existed. To help a child like this, the home problems need to be addressed. The inappropriate internet use is a symptom, not the entire problem.

Epithet, what a fantastic idea....It really depends oi where you live too, this might not work here in London, but, if you live in a medium sized town where it might be possible, how about photos of your niece to the pubs and clubs around your area or to places that you know she goes to??

NoName, I know you say that you dont have any faith in social services, and on some points I can agree with you having be involved on the outside with them, but the crux of the matter is, it isnt only about her drinking vodka and going on facebook is it? Youve told us that she posts sexually provocative photos of herself, which is putting herself in danger. Youve also told us that her mother is neglecting her emtionally and physically. Youve also told us that she "regularly walks out of school". If she is walking out of school, then those authorities should know about it, and if so, what are they doing about it?? She might be assessed by SS already???

Hope any of this helps, but the people who are assigned to help in these matters are SS...you could always try familyaction, and see if they have any advice for you.

She is still a child and needs to be protected. I would advise you call the NSPCC for advice and that you also take a look at the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre here www.ceop.gov.uk/

If you need to contact Social Services then do it. It sounds like she needs help and fast. Good luck.

What does your DD think?

Whether you involve other agencies or not, I can;t see the harm in letting your DN know that she can talk to you if she wants. It's not going to solve her problems, but it sounds like she needs a caring adult to be on her side

I am trying pumpkin, I am trying to work out a way that will actually help her not make me feel better.

Like it or not but it is not enough to pick up the phone to SS and think that you are suddenly absolved of everything becuase you have "done your bit" that may work for neighbours or whatever but not for your family.

My reasons are not spurious or assumed I do have experience of CP and SS. I could quite easily say "oh great thanks everyone I will call SS" and you could feel validated but that is not going to help my niece at all, I am hanging on in here for other thoughts and ideas, even if you don't like it.

If SS come in and make their asessment which has some very loose definitions when it comes to this kind of thing, they then say "well, nothing we can really do here" and leave, close the case.... How does that help any of them?

DN is still suffering and DSis is no better informed or able to help her daughter. DBIL will be angry, very angry at having SS arrive.... In fact I honestly see that would make the situation worse for all of them and would not make it better for any of them.

Pumpkin, you would have liked help, I understand that but wouldn't you have wanted the right help more?

Don't want to scare you even more but there was an article in this weekends Times about children being groomed on the internet and what happens to them. Your DN is following the "classic" pattern they described. BUT (and this is why I am contributing) they also talked about the work of a special police unit who are working to stop this - catch the groomers AND help the groomees. You could try contacting this unit (via the infor in the paper) or by contacting the police.

X-posted with Cakey - she's got the unit's name.

Kingbeat, I am not sure what referals a school would make, I suppse education authority? I am not sure if they would refer to SS, it has only just started happening in recent weeks so is early days yet, I really wish I could speak to them and find out what they are doing but they coundn't talk to me obviously...

Who are familyaction? How would I get in contact with them?

Cakeywakey, I will look at that site thank you.

Effie, my dd is pretty horrified by it all tbh, she is a fairly straight laced teen, she certainly has not reached her rebellion stage yet! I do let her know I am here - as much as I can, we text a fair amount and I call her once in a while to chat. I have invited her here countless times but her Mum always says no - apparently DN gets homesick DSis won't let her stay with any family actually, come to think of it...

You could both phone social services and commit yourself to be a positive presence in this child's life. It's not a case of either/or. Or go through her school. They might be aware of only one part (related to her school behaviour) of the picture of how this girl's life really is, and might be able to intervene themselves if they had the full picture.

Of course the family will all be very defensive about social services, and I understand your fear of exacerbating the situation for the child. But I would really fear that this child's suffering will not end and will only get much worse, as she is allowed to dig a bigger and bigger hole for herself by her feckless and incompetent parents, without intervention. I think the situation goes beyond informing her mother, btw. Your sister sounds like a really immature and self-centered person who has deliberately deluded herself about the scale of the problem because she doesn't want to take responsibility for the situation.

modmum, this is exactly what I am scared of, and what I was trying to explain to DSis about the Bebo stuff. She just doesn't think that the risk of grooming etc online is a real one (she actually said "oh I don't buy that..") So that link of Cakey's is the one you are refering to? Fantastic thank you?

I don't suppose you have a link to the article do you? I may print it off to show DSis at some stage.

The other thing I am worried about is, how do I prove all of this to DSis or anyone else I approach? First sniff of anything DN will probably just take th e whole lot down but it feel very odd to go and save a load of photos of her - IYSWIM!

Math, you are 100% right about DSis, awful as it is to say. I have never seen, up close, someone with dc behave so uncaring towards them. I know she regrets having them but why do the poor things have to spend their whole life paying for her mistakes? (Don't start me it is a whole other rant)

I can buy going to the school more, I would feel more confident going that way than any other TBH... it was one of the options discussed between me and other sister (older than all of us!) but she seemed to think it wouldn't work.. I cant remember why now.

I would call the NSPCC and ask their advice. Perhaps you will consider them expert enough to be worth listening to?

The 17 yr old murdered by a facebook sex attacker posing as a sixteen yr old is all over the papers today, so I imagine your sister and neice will have heard about it.

BOF, that was uncalled for.

I am not sure if they will have heard about the 17yo, I hadn't.

NoName, have a look at the news either online or on the tv, it really is a chilling prospect. As for familyaction, I will try and find out the email and phone number for you...brb

www.family-action.org.uk/ my best friend works for them, they are open for general advice...hope it helps

Like I said King, it is that type of thing I am worried about. Even meeting someone and having consentual but still mistaken sex could shape her whole future if done at this age, never mind all the more scary things that could go wrong, which hardly bear thinking about do they.

I will look up family-action tonight, thank you for the link!

You're very welcome.....it is absolutly the thing to be worried of....and thank god you are, as it seems the parents either dont want to know or cant be bothered to deal with it and the fall out.

I feel for you, i really do, as stepping in and giving even the smallest amount of criticism (sp?) is difficult at the best of times, let alone when there is a real need for the criticism in the first place, good luck.