I need advice on how to help my niece she is going off the rails and no-one has noticed! (long sorry)

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Ok the background, my niece is 13yo (soon to be 14) she has a terrible relationship with her parents and I am not close to them (there is a very big age gap). Recently her mother reacted in shock when I told her that it was against the law to smack or physically punish a child her words were "good job you told me" TBH I was too shocked to react.

DN is going through a tough teenge time, she walks out of school at will, stays up untill midnight on school nights and generally will not accept any authority at all. DSis has been going through a tough time for years, she has never engaged with her dc and never really cared much, she openly admits she wishes she had never had them (in front of them) and has days where she "can't be bothered to feed them" and so on. As they are older now they tend to fend for themselves.

SO, I have been aware of problems for a while and have tried again and again to get her mother to see it but she cannot seem to get the energy together to care and I am at a loss as to how to help given that her mother is not going to do anything other than scream at her...Her mother is also convinced DN is very innocent and does not really understand the outside world.

Problem 1; She is on Bebo, I know that she has friends on bebo that are adult and that she adds and chats to people who approach her - people she does not know at all, complete strangers.

Problem 2; she goes to nightclubs with friends, some her own age but I suspect also with her older friends too.

Problem 3; drinks, vodka and the like.

Problem 4; stays at friends houses and goes out drinking etc until 3 or 4 am.

Problem 5; her facebook is full of pictures of her posing in model type poses, including pics of her in her underwear - see through camis and thongs etc. The privacy settings allow friends of friends to see her photos (ie around 30,000 or more people)

Problem 6; when she is up late at night she is on networking sites and messenger with a webcam in a seperate room by herself, no-one checks on her at all. I know that some of her older friends have asked her to "pose" for them... I have no idea what else they have asked her to do or whether she has done what they asked. SHe is proud of and flattered by the attention.

Most of the above I have found out from my own teenage daughter and DN posts on facebook. I don't have a strong relationship with her as we have never lived close and I suspect it is too late to start one up now. I am nervous of getting my daughter involved, dd told dn how silly she was for accepting friend requests from people she did not know on bebo and got a serious dressing down from DN.

The problem is that her mother thinks she is innocent, doesn't drink, does not really "get" sex and also refuses to see any risk in sites like bebo and facebook, I have told her the statistics of people getting targeted on bebo and so on but she "doesn't buy it". Her mother does not go online and has no clue at all how these sites work.

What on earth can I do to help DN, how can I approach it? I know she is already half a step away from running away all-together and goodness knows where she would end up then! Sorry this is so long I am just at my wits end to know how to help when the parents are not willing/able to help too!

[tatt]

You can't really force anything. You might show your sister pictures from bebo/facebook and newspaper clippings of girls who have been targeted by perverts. If you are computer literate enough you could install monitoring software on the computer so they find out exactly what is going on.

You could speak to social sevices -but I share your doubts about their involvement - or to the local police. Then if she is picked up as in need of care and attention they know they can bring her to you. When we were in a similar place we offered a home if she needed it and tried to show by staying in contact that we cared and wanted to help.

As far as activities goes self defence and Air cadets have helped 2 girls I know. But it is difficult as you aren't in a position to bribe her to participate.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Thank you lovebeingamummy. My dd has tried before - but got told off for being a "stiff"!

I have contacted a couple of diffferent groups who have made some suggestions and are coming back to me with some other bits so, hopefully, we can start making some progress soon!

[LoveBeingAMummy]

Sorry haven't read all of the replies, the first thing i would do is report her pictures to facebook and bebo.

Any chance she would speak to your daughter? Not sure if you want her getting involved or not.

I know you said you didn't think SS would be worth calling but them or even a children charity might be able to point you in the right direction.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Kingbeat, thank you, I really do appreciate all your help and suggestions - everyones help and suggestions. I am feeling a bit clearer now, I have a few options for ways to get some support - or at least people who can give me ideas of how to get support IYSWIM.

I also have a clearer idea of where I stand with it all IYSWIM, sometimes, as much as anything else, you need to talk things round in circles a bit to get it all straight in your head.

I am not sure if I can be her "saviour" but I can certainly let her know I want to be there for her, the rest of it, well I will have to see what I can come up with. I am investigating the clubs she goes into, I also have photos of the underage friends she goes in with (I love facebook sometimes) so I have the option of sending them all so as no one of them gets picked on in particular IYSWIM (and deflect the "blame" a little).

You are right about DSis, I am perfectly able to manipulate conversations around child rearing and current thinking etc - I can be one of those parent bores

You have all been great, thank you again, I will try to update you as and when things progress!

[kingbeat23]

to all of it then....sometimes the only thing you can do then is sit on the sidelines and watch....maybe calling to find out how she is regularly and trying to subliminaly (sp?) change her views are the only way forward. Letting her know that someone, somewhere gives a damn about her might be the thing she needs? Not exactly the answer you were looking for, i know, but it's support for her none the less.

The same could be said for DSis as well. Going back to the OP you said she didnt know about the whole smacking issue, then try and drop things into conversation??

I'm sorry, I don't know what else I can suggest for you, but, please keep us posted on all the developments.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

We are not in the same town kingbeat, otherwise I would have ensured a more hands on role long before now! (as in included her in activities, occasions etc to make her feel more "part of the family")

WRT having DN here, I meant more that I would have her if she wanted to be here not that I would want to force it legally IYSWIM. TBH I doubt DN would want to move - we have a lot more rules and so on here. I am very sure we are not a very attractive prospect to a young lady used to doing anything she pleases IYSWIM regardless of how fab I am!

[kingbeat23]

To legally get DN to move in with you, then you would have to go through DSis and have sign over consent. But really it is up to DN if she wants to live with you (although, i am sure that you are lovely, she really might not want to).

I know that you have your own DD to look after, but are there no hobbies/clubs/schemes that they could do together, rather than get your sis on board, as she has thus far proved she is not inclined to do so. This would give her a chance to have a responsible peer group and an interest outside of the home/internet/club/drink connection.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Tatt, yes I would. I am not sure how that would be achieved though.

We tried getting DSis to do an activity with DN, she lasted about three weeks - which was pretty bad considering they were doing DSis hobby not DN's IYSWIM. She just does not have the inclination. DN considers herself too old for organised activities these days - which does not help matters!!

Harsh as it is I don't think DSis can be counted on to do anything really, she just is not up to it, for whatever reason. I suspect she has been depressed for nearly 20 years now (since she had an abortion that she did not really want to have) The problem is she has had chance after chance to get hlep/accept help, make changes and so on but cannot bring herself to do it.

I suspect part of her denial about all this is down to the fact that she does not want to recognise that her behaviour is damaging the dc. If she does not see anything wrong then she does not have to admit she has done anything wrong.

[tatt]

Op would you be willing to have the child live with you? I have experience of 2 girls who have behaved like this and in each case what made the difference was moving out. One went to live with other relatives, one was lucky enough to find a decent boyfriend (same age, not a pervert) and his mother has taken her in. I won't pretend it was easy for the families they went to live with but they have come through it.

If you can't do that then can you be a friend for her to come to if she needs help? You can try to keep her out of pubs and so on but unless the underlying issue (need for someone to show her love) is addressed she will just carry on.

Could you persuade your DS to find more activities for DN that will introduce other responsible adults into her life and maybe some more conventional friends?

[cakeywakey]

On a bit of an aside, I would advise all parents to take a look at the information and advice on CEOPS www.ceop.gov.uk/

Protecting our children when they use the Internet is something that we should all learn about. It's not something that any of us should stick our heads in the sand about.

When we were younger, we were always told not to go off with strangers or to play on the train tracks. Safe use of the internet is exactly the same.

I've been on a training course about child protection this week and was told some very sobering stuff

[Jujubean77]

I also thought about that story when I read this . It is a harsh reality and young people are v vulnerable to this kind of attack.

[kingbeat23]

You're very welcome.....it is absolutly the thing to be worried of....and thank god you are, as it seems the parents either dont want to know or cant be bothered to deal with it and the fall out.

I feel for you, i really do, as stepping in and giving even the smallest amount of criticism (sp?) is difficult at the best of times, let alone when there is a real need for the criticism in the first place, good luck.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Like I said King, it is that type of thing I am worried about. Even meeting someone and having consentual but still mistaken sex could shape her whole future if done at this age, never mind all the more scary things that could go wrong, which hardly bear thinking about do they.

I will look up family-action tonight, thank you for the link!

[kingbeat23]

www.family-action.org.uk/ my best friend works for them, they are open for general advice...hope it helps

[kingbeat23]

NoName, have a look at the news either online or on the tv, it really is a chilling prospect. As for familyaction, I will try and find out the email and phone number for you...brb

[NoNameNameyChangey]

BOF, that was uncalled for.

I am not sure if they will have heard about the 17yo, I hadn't.

[BiteOfFun]

I would call the NSPCC and ask their advice. Perhaps you will consider them expert enough to be worth listening to?

The 17 yr old murdered by a facebook sex attacker posing as a sixteen yr old is all over the papers today, so I imagine your sister and neice will have heard about it.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Math, you are 100% right about DSis, awful as it is to say. I have never seen, up close, someone with dc behave so uncaring towards them. I know she regrets having them but why do the poor things have to spend their whole life paying for her mistakes? (Don't start me it is a whole other rant)

I can buy going to the school more, I would feel more confident going that way than any other TBH... it was one of the options discussed between me and other sister (older than all of us!) but she seemed to think it wouldn't work.. I cant remember why now.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

modmum, this is exactly what I am scared of, and what I was trying to explain to DSis about the Bebo stuff. She just doesn't think that the risk of grooming etc online is a real one (she actually said "oh I don't buy that..") So that link of Cakey's is the one you are refering to? Fantastic thank you?

I don't suppose you have a link to the article do you? I may print it off to show DSis at some stage.

The other thing I am worried about is, how do I prove all of this to DSis or anyone else I approach? First sniff of anything DN will probably just take th e whole lot down but it feel very odd to go and save a load of photos of her - IYSWIM!

[mathanxiety]

You could both phone social services and commit yourself to be a positive presence in this child's life. It's not a case of either/or. Or go through her school. They might be aware of only one part (related to her school behaviour) of the picture of how this girl's life really is, and might be able to intervene themselves if they had the full picture.

Of course the family will all be very defensive about social services, and I understand your fear of exacerbating the situation for the child. But I would really fear that this child's suffering will not end and will only get much worse, as she is allowed to dig a bigger and bigger hole for herself by her feckless and incompetent parents, without intervention. I think the situation goes beyond informing her mother, btw. Your sister sounds like a really immature and self-centered person who has deliberately deluded herself about the scale of the problem because she doesn't want to take responsibility for the situation.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

Kingbeat, I am not sure what referals a school would make, I suppse education authority? I am not sure if they would refer to SS, it has only just started happening in recent weeks so is early days yet, I really wish I could speak to them and find out what they are doing but they coundn't talk to me obviously...

Who are familyaction? How would I get in contact with them?

Cakeywakey, I will look at that site thank you.

Effie, my dd is pretty horrified by it all tbh, she is a fairly straight laced teen, she certainly has not reached her rebellion stage yet! I do let her know I am here - as much as I can, we text a fair amount and I call her once in a while to chat. I have invited her here countless times but her Mum always says no - apparently DN gets homesick DSis won't let her stay with any family actually, come to think of it...

[modmum]

X-posted with Cakey - she's got the unit's name.

[modmum]

Don't want to scare you even more but there was an article in this weekends Times about children being groomed on the internet and what happens to them. Your DN is following the "classic" pattern they described. BUT (and this is why I am contributing) they also talked about the work of a special police unit who are working to stop this - catch the groomers AND help the groomees. You could try contacting this unit (via the infor in the paper) or by contacting the police.

[NoNameNameyChangey]

I am trying pumpkin, I am trying to work out a way that will actually help her not make me feel better.

Like it or not but it is not enough to pick up the phone to SS and think that you are suddenly absolved of everything becuase you have "done your bit" that may work for neighbours or whatever but not for your family.

My reasons are not spurious or assumed I do have experience of CP and SS. I could quite easily say "oh great thanks everyone I will call SS" and you could feel validated but that is not going to help my niece at all, I am hanging on in here for other thoughts and ideas, even if you don't like it.

If SS come in and make their asessment which has some very loose definitions when it comes to this kind of thing, they then say "well, nothing we can really do here" and leave, close the case.... How does that help any of them?

DN is still suffering and DSis is no better informed or able to help her daughter. DBIL will be angry, very angry at having SS arrive.... In fact I honestly see that would make the situation worse for all of them and would not make it better for any of them.

Pumpkin, you would have liked help, I understand that but wouldn't you have wanted the right help more?

[EffiePerine]

What does your DD think?

Whether you involve other agencies or not, I can;t see the harm in letting your DN know that she can talk to you if she wants. It's not going to solve her problems, but it sounds like she needs a caring adult to be on her side