daughter threatening not to go to university - help!

[olderandwider]

Hi, I'm new here but would really value some persepective on how to deal with my 18 year old's lack of enthusiasm for her second choice (ie insurance choice) university. Long story short, she messed around in 6th form and underperformed, so didn't make her predicted grades.

Her first choice uni rejected her, her second choice accepted her (even tho both offers had been identical!)She is really unkeen about her second choice, but has shown no enthusiasm for doing resits (in order to apply for 2010 entry she'd need to retake at least two A levels in November, I think) and she is talking about taking an unplanned gap year.

Thing is, she is a lazy madam and she will drive me mad lounging around the house. I doubt she will try very hard to get any sort of meaningful work (ie that will enhance her application for 2010 entry). Her younger brother is going into 6th form and I was looking forward to focusing more on his needs. DH and I think she should make the best of her insurance offer, and think she has had a narrow escape by avoiding clearing. It's a good university but just not what she really wanted.

She does want to go to uni (she is clever and went to a high-achieving school) but has taken this set back badly. Not doing resits would mean applying next year with 3Bs - not bad, but not enough to get her into the sort of course and uni she would like, and also unlikely to impress admissions tutors who will be looking at students with the new A* A levels.

Any views on this welcome!

If she really doesn't want to go then she will not do well at uni.

She might enjoy the clubbing part and make some friends but if she's not tuned into the uni and the course then she won't do well at what she's actually there for. I've seen students come into the advice centre where I used to work 4,5,6 weeks (usually around the first real deadline) saying they hate it, can't cope, never wanted to come but their parents forced them and want to drop out. 75% of those students who came on as part of our caseload would then drop out, I suspect most of the students who didn't just worked out how to leave of their own accord.

I've also worked for student counselling and listening services and again being forced to go to university can be an awful thing - students showed up with depression, with eating problems, with anxiety, with sleep problems, feeling isolated, developing dependencies on alcohol becauase the only thing they felt good at was going out and getting wasted... 18 is not very old, university is a shock to the system even when you're prepared for it and even knowing one person can make a huge difference. Being isolated from all your old friends through your own choice is one thing, being forced to go to your second choice when all your friends are off to what was your first choice is something completely different. I know that even if you go to uni with your friends you'll make more and spend less time with your old friends but not having that safety net can be difficult.

Let her take the retakes if she wants to and encourage her to get a job in December or do a course. The government should have funding towards courses in your area in something that she'll find useful! She could do an unpaid internship, a stint of volunteer work either in the UK or overseas, plenty of options! Or au pairing is a great suggestion - she'll be able to improve her language skills, get a bit of an allowance and go clubbing in a whole new city.

Bottom line: my advice from having worked in student support is don't make her go.

I don't know what you should do overall, OP. I am a bit of a hardass and would be inclined to give her the boot if she didn't knuckle down hard about looking for a job whilst being super nice at home (but I am a hardass). I expect that most people aren't so mean & horrid.

All this "get a job" stuff is easy to say, but jobs are currently quite HARD to come by for under 18-20 yos with only A-level qualifications (or less, as many have). I heard an estimate (doubtless stupidly inflated by the media, mind) of 40k people with decent A-level results who wouldn't get into any Uni this year. Many of those young people (even if it's only 10,000 will be desperately looking for jobs, too. I absolutely believe that Uni is a better place to be for 18-20yos than being on the job market right now.

I think you have a point Dittany, but when you have lived for 4 yrs with a bolshie teenager you might end up expressing it badly! Much as you love them they can be very frustrating! If you are emotionally involved it is very difficult to stand back and look at it objectively. frannkinp's advice was very interesting-and she has the experience-it backs up what I was saying about not pressurising them to go. I think that a lot of young people are under pressure to succeed, and university is seen as succeeding.
I wouldn't make her go-perhaps when the pressure is off she will have a proper look at the alternatives. I expect she will eventually come to her own conclusion that she wants further qualifications-the difference is that she wants to do it. She may well find she is lonely- my DS goes this year-if he stayed at home I don't think he would have had friends around-they are all off somewhere.

Unfortunately peanutbutterkid is right-getting a job is going to be tremendously difficult. DS, same age, had two interviews for a part time Chrismas job. 20 had the first interview, he got to the second but there were only 2 jobs. I have no idea how many applied in the first place but well over 20!

The last thing university departments need is yet another unmotivated student with a 'haphazard' approach to her degree. The drop-out rate is generally high now, and most of the students who drop out are those who end up on courses that they're not that interested in at universities that they're not that keen on.

(I was a university admissions tutor in a former life. I was also a lecturer, and spent a huge amount of time nursing students through their various crises, many of which boiled down to them being at university because it's what's expected of them, not what they really want to do).

I'd also say that university is not the be-all and end-all. If your daughter were mine, OP, I would tell her to either get a job here or abroad (I certainly would not offer her the option of lazing around and doing nothing at home), on the grounds that she can always re-apply for university later on with more 'life experience'. Admissions tutors do like potential students who have made a positive decision to return to education, and are often more lenient about their grades on account of their high motivation (better a very well motivated, more mature student with three Bs than a crisis-ridden, unmotivated one with three As).

I'd also take into account the subject that your daughter has planned to study. I would think very carefully anyway before encouraging a child to start on a degree course that will land them with considerable debts if it's not got a reasonable guarantee of enabling them to get a job afterwards. It may be hard for a post-A-level person to get a job, but graduate unemployment isn't a picnic either.

Above all, she has to really, really want to go herself. If she does, the debt and studying will all be worth it. If she doesn't, she will end up either dropping out or in some kind of crisis. There is a future beyond university!

I haven't read all the posts, but she's 18, unless she needs your support through uni, it's not your problem.

If it's about getting her out of the house let her have that gap year, but make it clear you won't be supporting her.

My Dad was desperately disappointed that I don;t go to university (mainly because I was too chicken TBH, although I've never admitted that to him) and almost everything I've done in life (esp career wise) has been to make that up to him. Please don't let your daughter feel like that.

I think it is a parent's problem-you don't stop worrying because they are 18 yrs.

Dittany, I normally agree with you, and maybe you have a point here but I'm inclined to think you are being a bit harsh on olderandwider.

Her dd is relatively lucky to have a place at university. If she doesn't want to go, fine, but she has to find something else to do instead.

Crikey what an incoherent msg I wrote above .
Something to do with screaming minions around me.

DD and I are going to look at the uni next week, especially where she might stay. I know people have said here that going to uni when you are not keen is a bad idea, but she was very keen to go to her first choice, and it's the disappointment of not going there that has put her off second choice, not the whole concept of uni.

I think the gap year is actually worse than my preferred option of her trying second choice uni (now thinking I should say to her stay for a year, take stock of whether to stay/move unis/change degree). I think she will just drift if she does a gap year - whether she stays at home or moves out. As I said earlier, she doesn't like the idea of backpacking although aupairing might be an option (she did A level French).

DH and I will not abandon her if she insists on gap year, but she has to see the dynamic at home has to change if we chooses this. Dittany - she is not keen on retakes, and I think talking her into doing that would backfire as there are no guarantees (and she knows this) that a) she would get better grades next time and b) she would get as good offers next year, given unis are raising the bar each year.

I took A levels and did a BSc and I know which was harder - A levels every time. DD actually took a module in her chosen subject at a university nightclass and passed the exam with a Merit (she did this to enhance her personal statement). That was in Year 12, before she went off the boil academically in Year 13. The fact she could pass this at 17 shows she is well able to handle degree level work. As I said originally, she is intelligent, she is interested in her subject, she has just got the hump about not getting into her first choice uni.

I feel quite sorry for her - sounds like a very upsetting time for her and you come across as simply wanting rid of her.

What would be the best thing for your dd? We know what you think the best thing for you is - but what objectively does she want? Sounds like it's to go to the other uni so how about you support her in finding out how she can make that happen instead of pushing her in a direction which suits you but plainly isn't what she wants?

That's great that she did A-level French - why don't you talk to her about spending a year in Paris as an au pair and see whether she would be prepared to consider that alternative? It might help her clarify her thoughts if she has realistic choices ahead of her for the year ahead (second choice university versus au pair job where she will gain lots of experience and skills).

If she wants to do the au pair thing, CAT me and I will give you some advice!

Goodness some people are being very hard on the OP who is clearly pretty worried as well.It may not be ideal but life is full of hard choices and at 18 I think she does have to learn that life is about making the best of what you have and sometimes having to come to terms with things not turning out exactely the way you want them to.The OP is not abandoning her daughter but she is being firm about what her choices are and hard as it may be that is what (with the support of her family)her daughter is going to have to do,our job as parents is not to remove all stress a nd difficult decisions it is to support the young person in making the right decision.I will always be there for my ds's but...they have to face the consequences of their actions ,I have told them it doesn't matter how bad the problem is I will always be there to support them and be a sounding board and to love them but I cannot deal with things for them at 18.
At 18 she is a legal adult she can't just lie on the sofa and expect mummy and daddy to take the problem away,hard though it is she will have to face the problem and make a decision about her future ,it seems to me that the OP is just trying to make her see this.

Living with teenagers is hard ,even if they can be intelligent and charming when they choose and until you have been there I am not sure you can critisize too much .

i have seen several friends kids drop out of uni or drift aimlessly after school. The ones who have managed to get their acts together are those who moved out of their parenst home, either to work or travel abroad

i agree that staying at home with no job or money is a recipe for disaster.

one friends son went to uni and got kicked out during first year for not attending classes/turning in course work

then his parenst paid for him to resit the same course the next year and the same thing happened

he then returned home, was unempolyed for months. eventually got part time job in catering. his parenst don't take any money from him for his keep, so although his job is only p/t and ( I assume) minimum wage, he has plenty money to go out drinking/clubbing. Now he is 23, has no plans and wont move out as it woudl affect his lifestyle

Dittany, actually it was a lot more complicated than that, but the thread's not about me so no point dredging up a lot of stuff that's irrelevant to olderandwiser and her dd.

Floaty's right, the dd has to learn that sometimes your first choice doesn't come off and there's no point pining for it. You have to decide what you are going to do about the circumstances you are in, not the ones you dreamed about.

I don't want to kick my daughter out, and we are in almost the same position. I'd like her to wake up before 2pm though, and she's getting board and lodging but no cash.
So she'll either have to get a part-time job or live within her means and without money.

But she didn't want to do resits, so that's not the issue, surely?

FWIW I really wouldn't push the second choice of university. Children resent being pushed into things they don't want to do and then it all becomes your fault if they don't perform or enjoy it.

She needs to take responsibility for her own life and decisions.

Tell her she's moving out, and that you'll continue to provide her allowance which will not be sufficient for her to live on independently, so she will have to work.

If she's truly motivated (and it sounds as though she isn't) she'll resit the A levels independently and go to her first choice university. Or develop some affection for the second choice of university.

She just needs a dose of reality really. You won't do her any favours by cushioning her from it.

'has shown no enthusiasm for doing resits'

So, instead of a boot out of the house, a boot up the bum to make her see the connection between
Improved results=Go to the university of your choice.
Apply with the grades you currently have=No chance.

It's not about abandonment - no-one is suggesting that she should be on her own - it's about developing a sense of responsibility.