15 year old boy withdrawing

[Starmarshmallow123]

My 15 year old son talks very little to us, and it feels like he has singled me out in particular to just say the bare minimum to.
Like most 15 year olds he is very focused on friends/girlfriend over us and wants to make all decisions about his life himself, believing he is an adult.

He spends lots of time on his ps5 and phone which I find infuriating but is doing well at school (despite what seems like limited homework) and is well liked.

Mostly I let him get on with things now but I do insist he hands over his devices at 11pm on a school night and midnight on the weekend. He has told me that I don't get to have affection from him because of this and it seems a hill he will die on, he goes back to it all the time and says he is the only one who has to do this and he isn't trusted and treated like a child.

It feels like some of his behaviour is probably normal teen withdrawal but I worry it is made worse by screen addiction and every part of me is screaming it would be wrong to give him even more access to screens. I am being ground down though, it feels like this has been going on for months, even a year or so.

He is better with his dad , though their chats are limited he does get a bit more animated and seems to respect him more, they have more in common i think. I can't say he is awful, doesnt shout and swear, isnt violent, does well at school, swims twice a week and volunteers for Duke of edinburgh. Has nice friends and a nice girlfirend. But he actively dislikes me and I love him so much. Every day I say the same things? Morning, kiss him goodbye, how was your day, what would you like for tea. He is just glazed over. If I push him, he tells me until he is trusted with his phone all night he has nothing to say to me.

I am close to my 12 year old daughter and I feel so bad that I actively spend time with her and not him. I start to have sad thoughts that maybe I will always only have a bond with her and not him and adulthood things will be the same.

Trust is a huge issue - he has never given us loads of reason to trust him to be honest and I do check his messaging apps a little which have revealed issues in the past (eg we needed to talk to him about the facts of life) I think he is aware of the intrusion a little but I don't know how else to keep him safe. I kiss and hug him goodbye and goodnight every day, mostly he lets me but sometimes at night he pushes me away.

At my lowest I have told his dad maybe he needs a trial period with the phone at night to try and show some trust. He says how could i possibly think more phone is a good idea. I know he is right and it will be hard to go back on it when I almost inevitably have to. But I so want a better relationship with him before these years are over. I feel blood sweat and tears has gone into having him and I am so sad the i don't get to benefit from a relationship with him now. Any advice gratefully received and sorry for rambling

Your DH is right- madness to allow him more phone over night. For my own DS, I take trust out of the equation on this issue: The addictive nature (by design) of smart phones and apps is well documented and your DS’s teenage brain is still developing- so you need active parenting and consistent rules, don’t make it about trusting or not trusting him. Who knows if it’s true that his friends don’t have the same rule but you shouldn’t feel pressured to back down- as you say, your job is to keep him safe, and you can remind him of this. He sounds like a good kid though and you are clearly a loving and supportive parent. Hopefully he’ll come through the other side soon.

He is attempting to blackmail you into allowing him his phone overnight. Did you buy his phone? Do you pay for the contract / data plan / internet connection? If so, he is lucky you allow him to have his phone as much as he already has. I would be taking it away or restricting his access even more until he starts treating you with more respect.

Thanks both
His dad pays for the phone contract and there have been many times I have wanted to throw it in the nearest river.
I want to salvage what I can of these remaining years so we can forge a relationship to take us through.
I have come in today, asked how the day went ('good') he will appear when hungry and loiter. Won't see much of him then till I go in to take the phone and say goodnight. When he will huff and puff under his breath

I thought about a trial period with an extension lead to keep the phone visible from the door. But I just cant reward him being so divorced from everything thats going on in the house.

I think you need to engage dad more in taking the phone off him and making it clear that it’s both of your rules. It sounds like he is blaming you solely

He definitely is and I have reminded him that this isn't just my decision. I am always the one taking it but that is because his dad doesn't agree with me doing it at 11pm and believes it should be earlier.
He sleeps until 0730 and just doesn't need the sleep and is restless so I try and treat him a little more grown up in this way. I have pointed this out to my son and also that he wouldn't have the ps5 if it wasn't for me so I am not always the draconian one.
I laughed at chat gpt today, it suggested I talk in statements rather than open questions, so he feels less like he is getting the third degree

It has become a bit like what did you have for lunch, did you get any homework, are you going swimming....same old, same old
He has just told me he has upped his predicted grades in quite a few subjects so I have told him I will book alton towers (we both love scary rides unlike his dad and sister.)
Can't go till it re opens in march so I need to think of some other bonding activities in rhe meantime for a bit of common interest.
I think if I knew the end date and that he would emerge from this one day I could ride it out better.

I do feel for you, my son had a similar stage with just one word answers, disappearing to his room a lot and only coming down for food. I worried about our future relationship the same as you have.
Alton towers sounds a great idea - I was just about to suggest can you start spending more quality time together. My son decided he wanted a fish tank (I wasn't expecting that at 16!) but the aquarium shop is a drive away so I've spend a lot time doing trips there with him for various bits & bobs, and I manage to get us to go for lunch or icecream just us at the same time. That time has really helped lots. I feel like we've got closer again.
And definitely get his dad to be 'bad cop' sometimes too, so it's not just you. This has happened with me and my husband before, and I have had to mention it and get him to share the load of being bad cop.

With regard to the phone - would it help to have a plan in place, so he can see that you won't have his phone forever? E.g he can have it in his room overnight at XX age?
I am similar to you and was very anti-phones, and social media, and we had been restricting both - but I changed my mind when I read that if you manage it for a young person up until they are 18, then if they head off to uni or move out, all of a sudden they have to learn how to manage their own screen time completely on their own, but without support from you around. So reluctantly, at 15 and a half, I let my son start having his phone in his room overnight for weekends and school holidays - but we agreed not the night before school days. I also got him to sit and watch the documentary 'The Social Dilemma' on Netflix with me, which led to a lot of discussions about addictiveness of phones. He got Tiktok and we agreed to have a chat every couple of weeks to see how he was getting on. Long story short, over several months he ended up realising how addictive apps could be, and himself loaded up an app-blocker programme that restricts his time on tiktok, plus he sets his phone to go to sleep at a certain time as he doesn't want it disturbing him at night. He is 16 and a half now and has his phone in his room overnight every night but its been working fine. Yes there was a transition period, and I still check in with him every now and then and ask to see his screen time in his settings, so we can make sure he is doing ok.
I think I have learnt in alot of areas recently that I can't make decisions for him, I need to show him the reasoning behind my (strong) suggestions and be there to support him while he's working things out himself.

Thank you so much your reply is so helpful!
I have been trying to formulate something in my head that looks towards the future without selling myself out. Your response sounds really measured and lovely to hear you could bond with your boy over building his aquarium- that is so sweet.
In my mind I don't want him having it at night ever (which i guess would mean adulthood - 18) but in today's world with all his friends treated liberally (supposedly) that is a hard line that will feel terrible to my son and will be an abiding memory of how he feels I treated him no doubt!
I feel the phone has stolen so much, I have tried at every stage, am so looking forward to the social media ban for my daughter but sadly it feels too late for him !
I know he does not have the maturity yet not to do it for hours and hours if he gets the chance. I have also thought about an extension lead near the door so I can see the phone is charging away from him for a while. He promises he wouldnt be on it so I am not sure why it even matters to him much - what would it change??
I think ill try and build up quality time here and there but its only ever a week tops before he steers conversation back and it is always late at night when I am knackered and really don''t want a fight, and it leaves me feeling like any kind words or progress are undone.
Sometimes I want to wake up when he is however old he needs to be to get more reasonable and more trustworthy, and just sleep through the hard bit before then x

It sounds like a painful stage, but some withdrawal is quite normal at 15. I’d keep the screen boundaries while still giving him little opportunities to connect without pressure. He may not show it now, but that doesn’t mean the bond you’ve built has gone.

@Starmarshmallow123 I could have written your post word for word. No advice to give but just for you to know you're not in the trenches alone.