15 year old boy withdrawing

[Starmarshmallow123]

My 15 year old son talks very little to us, and it feels like he has singled me out in particular to just say the bare minimum to.
Like most 15 year olds he is very focused on friends/girlfriend over us and wants to make all decisions about his life himself, believing he is an adult.

He spends lots of time on his ps5 and phone which I find infuriating but is doing well at school (despite what seems like limited homework) and is well liked.

Mostly I let him get on with things now but I do insist he hands over his devices at 11pm on a school night and midnight on the weekend. He has told me that I don't get to have affection from him because of this and it seems a hill he will die on, he goes back to it all the time and says he is the only one who has to do this and he isn't trusted and treated like a child.

It feels like some of his behaviour is probably normal teen withdrawal but I worry it is made worse by screen addiction and every part of me is screaming it would be wrong to give him even more access to screens. I am being ground down though, it feels like this has been going on for months, even a year or so.

He is better with his dad , though their chats are limited he does get a bit more animated and seems to respect him more, they have more in common i think. I can't say he is awful, doesnt shout and swear, isnt violent, does well at school, swims twice a week and volunteers for Duke of edinburgh. Has nice friends and a nice girlfirend. But he actively dislikes me and I love him so much. Every day I say the same things? Morning, kiss him goodbye, how was your day, what would you like for tea. He is just glazed over. If I push him, he tells me until he is trusted with his phone all night he has nothing to say to me.

I am close to my 12 year old daughter and I feel so bad that I actively spend time with her and not him. I start to have sad thoughts that maybe I will always only have a bond with her and not him and adulthood things will be the same.

Trust is a huge issue - he has never given us loads of reason to trust him to be honest and I do check his messaging apps a little which have revealed issues in the past (eg we needed to talk to him about the facts of life) I think he is aware of the intrusion a little but I don't know how else to keep him safe. I kiss and hug him goodbye and goodnight every day, mostly he lets me but sometimes at night he pushes me away.

At my lowest I have told his dad maybe he needs a trial period with the phone at night to try and show some trust. He says how could i possibly think more phone is a good idea. I know he is right and it will be hard to go back on it when I almost inevitably have to. But I so want a better relationship with him before these years are over. I feel blood sweat and tears has gone into having him and I am so sad the i don't get to benefit from a relationship with him now. Any advice gratefully received and sorry for rambling

Your DH is right- madness to allow him more phone over night. For my own DS, I take trust out of the equation on this issue: The addictive nature (by design) of smart phones and apps is well documented and your DS’s teenage brain is still developing- so you need active parenting and consistent rules, don’t make it about trusting or not trusting him. Who knows if it’s true that his friends don’t have the same rule but you shouldn’t feel pressured to back down- as you say, your job is to keep him safe, and you can remind him of this. He sounds like a good kid though and you are clearly a loving and supportive parent. Hopefully he’ll come through the other side soon.

He is attempting to blackmail you into allowing him his phone overnight. Did you buy his phone? Do you pay for the contract / data plan / internet connection? If so, he is lucky you allow him to have his phone as much as he already has. I would be taking it away or restricting his access even more until he starts treating you with more respect.

Thanks both
His dad pays for the phone contract and there have been many times I have wanted to throw it in the nearest river.
I want to salvage what I can of these remaining years so we can forge a relationship to take us through.
I have come in today, asked how the day went ('good') he will appear when hungry and loiter. Won't see much of him then till I go in to take the phone and say goodnight. When he will huff and puff under his breath

I thought about a trial period with an extension lead to keep the phone visible from the door. But I just cant reward him being so divorced from everything thats going on in the house.

I think you need to engage dad more in taking the phone off him and making it clear that it’s both of your rules. It sounds like he is blaming you solely

He definitely is and I have reminded him that this isn't just my decision. I am always the one taking it but that is because his dad doesn't agree with me doing it at 11pm and believes it should be earlier.
He sleeps until 0730 and just doesn't need the sleep and is restless so I try and treat him a little more grown up in this way. I have pointed this out to my son and also that he wouldn't have the ps5 if it wasn't for me so I am not always the draconian one.
I laughed at chat gpt today, it suggested I talk in statements rather than open questions, so he feels less like he is getting the third degree

It has become a bit like what did you have for lunch, did you get any homework, are you going swimming....same old, same old
He has just told me he has upped his predicted grades in quite a few subjects so I have told him I will book alton towers (we both love scary rides unlike his dad and sister.)
Can't go till it re opens in march so I need to think of some other bonding activities in rhe meantime for a bit of common interest.
I think if I knew the end date and that he would emerge from this one day I could ride it out better.

I do feel for you, my son had a similar stage with just one word answers, disappearing to his room a lot and only coming down for food. I worried about our future relationship the same as you have.
Alton towers sounds a great idea - I was just about to suggest can you start spending more quality time together. My son decided he wanted a fish tank (I wasn't expecting that at 16!) but the aquarium shop is a drive away so I've spend a lot time doing trips there with him for various bits & bobs, and I manage to get us to go for lunch or icecream just us at the same time. That time has really helped lots. I feel like we've got closer again.
And definitely get his dad to be 'bad cop' sometimes too, so it's not just you. This has happened with me and my husband before, and I have had to mention it and get him to share the load of being bad cop.

With regard to the phone - would it help to have a plan in place, so he can see that you won't have his phone forever? E.g he can have it in his room overnight at XX age?
I am similar to you and was very anti-phones, and social media, and we had been restricting both - but I changed my mind when I read that if you manage it for a young person up until they are 18, then if they head off to uni or move out, all of a sudden they have to learn how to manage their own screen time completely on their own, but without support from you around. So reluctantly, at 15 and a half, I let my son start having his phone in his room overnight for weekends and school holidays - but we agreed not the night before school days. I also got him to sit and watch the documentary 'The Social Dilemma' on Netflix with me, which led to a lot of discussions about addictiveness of phones. He got Tiktok and we agreed to have a chat every couple of weeks to see how he was getting on. Long story short, over several months he ended up realising how addictive apps could be, and himself loaded up an app-blocker programme that restricts his time on tiktok, plus he sets his phone to go to sleep at a certain time as he doesn't want it disturbing him at night. He is 16 and a half now and has his phone in his room overnight every night but its been working fine. Yes there was a transition period, and I still check in with him every now and then and ask to see his screen time in his settings, so we can make sure he is doing ok.
I think I have learnt in alot of areas recently that I can't make decisions for him, I need to show him the reasoning behind my (strong) suggestions and be there to support him while he's working things out himself.

Thank you so much your reply is so helpful!
I have been trying to formulate something in my head that looks towards the future without selling myself out. Your response sounds really measured and lovely to hear you could bond with your boy over building his aquarium- that is so sweet.
In my mind I don't want him having it at night ever (which i guess would mean adulthood - 18) but in today's world with all his friends treated liberally (supposedly) that is a hard line that will feel terrible to my son and will be an abiding memory of how he feels I treated him no doubt!
I feel the phone has stolen so much, I have tried at every stage, am so looking forward to the social media ban for my daughter but sadly it feels too late for him !
I know he does not have the maturity yet not to do it for hours and hours if he gets the chance. I have also thought about an extension lead near the door so I can see the phone is charging away from him for a while. He promises he wouldnt be on it so I am not sure why it even matters to him much - what would it change??
I think ill try and build up quality time here and there but its only ever a week tops before he steers conversation back and it is always late at night when I am knackered and really don''t want a fight, and it leaves me feeling like any kind words or progress are undone.
Sometimes I want to wake up when he is however old he needs to be to get more reasonable and more trustworthy, and just sleep through the hard bit before then x

It sounds like a painful stage, but some withdrawal is quite normal at 15. I’d keep the screen boundaries while still giving him little opportunities to connect without pressure. He may not show it now, but that doesn’t mean the bond you’ve built has gone.

@Starmarshmallow123 I could have written your post word for word. No advice to give but just for you to know you're not in the trenches alone.

OP, do you know his friends' parents at all? I'd be asking what their screen time rules are, just to check the whole 'it's only me' bit.

I think I definitely wouldn't change my rule but I might try to discuss my reasoning with him, and I would listen to his side.

I find it really odd that he is okay with DH but not you. Is DH backing you? Also, if our DC was rude to me, DH would be making it very clear that this wasn't okay. Is there a bit of weird misogyny going on here? It strikes me as peculiar that he is exclusively blaming you.

I wouldn't be black mailed into exchanging screen time for affection though. That seems like a bad idea. Personally I wouldn't be doing treats for good grades either. I'd arrange a trip somewhere if I thought we'd all enjoy it, not as a reward. We don't really do that although plenty of other families clearly do. I don't want DC thinking they need to achieve academically or otherwise to make me proud but to make themselves proud. It is a little transactional perhaps, like hugs for screen time. He should want to be nice to others because it is the right thing to do, not because he gets something out of it. You have feelings too.

I get that the teenage years are a sort of withdrawal from dependence on parents and that teenagers are not always thinking about the feelings of others, and that he might not want hugs or to discuss his day in the detail he once did, but this feels more extreme than that, from your description.

He sounds like he thinks his attitude towards you will get him what he wants, and it made me wonder if you have given him what he wants in other ways following these sort of tactics in the past.

I suppose what you want to convey is that you very much love him still but you don't like his behaviour towards you. You can't force someone to demonstrate that they love you but you can insist on a minimum level of courtesy in your own house when you are paying his phone bill and for the electricity that runs his PlayStation. DH ought to also insist that you are spoken to politely and that DS helps out around the house but you can't insist on hugs. Hopefully he'll come out the other side at some point.

His dad needs to start taking his phone at whatever time he sees fit.

Does DH step up and address (bollock him) about how he treats you? I would be tempted to reply that until he treats you with respect he can do his own washing and ironing for a start. He’s making a complete mug out of you.

Hi yes he does, do you mean my DH does his own washing or my son? My DH certainly does address it with him. Doesn't seem to get us anywhere.

Thanks for your reply. It does feel a bit unsavoury to me that the woman gets blamed all the time. In truth I think its because he knows he can hurt me more with his behaviour.
We have had a lovely holiday last week where we flew to the sunshine and had some family times. We have never had a holiday abroad before but recently downsized so we can enjoy more things like this. He talked more, we shared some happy memories he found it all so exciting. We let him have the phone at night during the holiday and the charging portal broke whilst we were there. DH took him on a bus ride to sort it whilst there. We went to a water park which is his favoirite thing, we all had fun together, I felt all our relationships were better.
Back home now, started going more insular quire quickly and tonight DH is away so he has been rude all night and started arguing again at bedtime. Its so hard to take after the holiday.
I have told him when he pays the bill he can dictate the rules. I wish the brief good times didnt have to end. I probably have to stop showing him he hurts me and harden up.

You seem to be fixating on the phone rather than addressing the issues with your relationship.

Teenagers are smart. I expect your son recognises that your phone fixation may represent a refusal to recognise his developing need for autonomy as well as a refusal to address the real issues. Your post conflates his safety with your needs, rather than what he needs.

Thank you.
Am studying your words and scratching my head a bit, there are of course emotions wrapped up in it for both of us but I do feel.i have tried hard at my relationship with him. Maybe I have become fixated on the phone at night issue but it is relentless. Of course he wants full autonomy, but at 15 with no job and issues with showing respect to the people that do everything for him, full autonomy doesn't happen yet.Tonight I just feel like caring less and being harder 😌 sick of it really

I’d imagine you are right that he knows he can get to you this way - it is working. Kids are particularly good at twanging on their mothers’ heart strings.

It is not a good thing for his long term model of relationships, for him to view withholding affection as a way to force what he wants to happen - which is why I don’t think you should allow yourself to be manipulated in this way. I’d want to say that this behaviour indicates that he is not mature enough to have unlimited access to a phone, if he’s not mature enough to remain respectful when he is angry and disappointed. I’d lay out clear expectations that are specific - when I speak to you I expect you to look me in the eye, respond, whatever it is you feel is reasonable to expect.

Managing an addictive substance/item like a phone is all about emotional regulation. To not be ruled by it we need to have enough capacity to suppress the impulse to pick it up constantly, or not turn to it when upset/bored/anxious etc. He is demonstrating he doesn’t yet have effective ways of managing his anger at this.

I wonder if you’ve been able to engage him much on how he actually feels towards you? Is it anger he’s feeling or is he hurt he’s not trusted, for example? I know you can’t make him discuss this but wondering if you have a sense. I think it’s ok for him to know you’re upset - it’s good. But it doesn’t mean letting him win with this strategy.

I love that you had a great holiday. It strikes me that your lovely boy is still very much alive and well, even if the return to routines is a bit of a come down. It must be for him, too, to be behaving so differently.

I can't really get a sense in what is actually going on here, OP. Is this really about having access to his phone overnight? Why does he want this so much and you are so against it? Can you discuss this? Is there something else bothering him?

Lots of people will advise cracking down with a raft of rules but I personally don't want my home life to be like that. Each very much to their own, but it isn't for me. I do make my DD put her phone on charge at bedtime in another room- she's happy with this and I'm a bit obsessed with her getting enough sleep, which she does. I have very few other rules around phones or anything though, and I imagined I would. I don't check her phone/look at her screen time as it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'm not sure quite what I would do practically in your shoes, but I would really want to know how your son is feeling. To be so different out of the house makes me wonder what you could all do to maintain more of that easy, good natured family connection now you are home.

If he is looking for more autonomy, I think you have to give him some but he will have to prove that he is ready for it by behaving reasonably. Could you both state your cases and come up with a trial? I wouldn't be bullied by any stretch but I would want to know why he wants what he wants so desperately and why he is so unhappy/unpleasant at home. What is he planning to do with the phone overnight that is worth all this stress? I'd want to know. Could you head to neutral territory like dinner out and find out, just the two of you.

I lock my children's phones and computers remotely at 20:00 every evening, if they want more time they follow the rules and help out at home, if they do not they get less time. I give them a little respite, if they are in the middle of a mission they are allowed to finish it first within limits. The amount of battles we have had over this has been insane. They try everything to get more time and sneakily change the settings on my phone, it is a never ending battle and i have heard the 'no one else has limits' speech many times over the years, but as others have said, the amount of advice out there and research done on the effects of screens on children's brains, make it mad to me for anyone to give a child unlimited screen time.

As said already he is testing you, and his welfare is your biggest concern, so stick to your guns. The way you describe him he is a great kid and don't forget he is in the dreaded puberty age group so will be feeling all kinds of things he hasn't before. If you haven't already maybe try to get involved in the gaming he does. My daughter lets me play her game with her sometimes. I spend the majority of it running round in circles staring at the sky because i can't get around the controls but it usually ends in us having a laugh.

You are doing everything right and if he wants to gain trust, get him to show how responsible he is in other ways first, 'it's your job to put the bins out every week , this is when they get collected, if you can do that, well....'

Best of luck with it all