Niece is 18 but getting somehow moodier??

[elleone]

My sister has two children, one a son in his 20s (he is quiet but seems to be doing okay), while the younger child is a daughter who is 18. The 18yo has always been a bit louder and more forward than her older brother, and she has also always been slightly more argumentative, looking to have the last word etc, but she was also a sweet funny kid growing up most of the time, just a little grumpy occasionally.

Recently I accompanied my sister and her family on holiday. It was exhausting and I could tell my sister and her husband are completely fed up with their 18yo’s behaviour. I don’t have kids myself, so I’m coming here for outside opinions, but the 18yo swears a lot (including in front of kids in public), screams in public that she hates everyone and wants to punch something, constantly calls people stupid, including me and her parents and older brother, has tantrums over being given food she “can’t eat” in restaurants because it is too chewy, too salty, too herby, too hot to eat, you name it.

My sister tells me it has been bad for years since she turned 13 and is getting worse, and she and her husband have fights over how to handle the 18yo. The 24yo seems very fed-up too. Every day of the holiday was a battle, multiple times per day.

On behalf of my sister and her family, what do we do? Is this normal? Will she grow out of it? I’m thinking back to when I was that age, and I don’t think either me or my sister were quite that bad. We shouted at our parents and slammed doors for a few years when we were 13, and were stressed throughout our exam periods, but we’d mellowed out by the time we were about 17.

At what point should I be telling my sister she needs to do something? Or do we just wait it out?

I have an 18 year old DD and know a lot of girls this age. This is so far removed from normal in neuro- typical girls.
You mention this has been going on since she was 13- has she ever been assessed?

I’ve considered the possibility that she might be having meltdowns, actually, but she’s never been assessed. I’ve never been formally assessed myself either, but I have talked about the possibility that I’m AuDHD with my doctor so it’s possible that it runs in the family. My sister doesn’t really “believe” in autism unless it manifests stereotypically so that might be a hard subject to broach. Any other signs to look out for?

Yes someone is going to come along and mention autism

Oh, they have already.

Predictable.

My dd behaved like this.

she is now diagnosed with adhd and autism.

the adhd drugs helped. She has also matured significantly.

the behaviour could be a whole variety of things. Re the restaurants, does she not choose her own food there?

That could be part of the the problem IF she is on the spectrum and has had no support from her parents with it, obviously the swearing in front of children isn't acceptable but I think with girls there is still an element of society who thinks girls should not have strong opinions and behave like a princess.

But many girls and young women are taking on that stereotype and will voice there opinions if they feel something is not right.but if it's a boy or a young man complaining about the food in a restaurant then it's a well done for standing up for what you believe in.

I'm not condoning her behaviour,but maybe she's never had the chance to express her opinions or felt she couldn't and all that pent up frustrations from growing up are coming out now.

She does choose her own food. She has some intolerances to dairy and a nut allergy, so eating out can be a stressful experience, to be fair, because of cross-contamination. I don’t think it’s helped by the fact that she is also a little bit of a picky eater. She’s got better at trying new things as she’s got older, but she hates spice and isn’t a big fan of herby dishes, or meats which aren’t breast/filleted, and she tends to mainly eat plain rice or potatoes as side dishes, so that makes eating out even harder for her. She likes to be familiar with every dish.

That’s true. I remember when she was little other relatives would buy her pink dresses to wear because she was a girl and she’d never be happy about it. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’d internalised that a bit and feels like she’s not like other girls.

I know I felt a bit like that as a kid. I do think there are times when my sister chooses to shout at her but doesn’t get to the root of what’s actually wrong. I’m obviously not a parent and it must be difficult to juggle misbehaviour and your kid’s feelings as well as regulating your own emotions, but there have been a few times when I felt like a different approach would have helped.

You can call it predictable if you like but having worked in education for a quarter of a century and knowing many close friends and family with ND children, it’s very common, especially in girls, for this behaviour to begin to show during puberty in girls with autism or ADHD and without support, will get worse.

Of course, there could be many other reasons but it would be stuipd to rule it out.

I’m surprised the 24 year old wanted to come in a family holiday!

The 18 year old doesn’t sound typical now. Have there been no issues previously? No SEN?

Apart from the moodiness, not really. She has great grades, is planning to go into Cancer research, has excellent school reports as far as I know. Edit: also is very sociable and has a solid friend group she sees a lot.

Yeah, haha. I think 24yo was there for a final freebie. He also broke up with his partner recently, so I think having family company helped. 24yo is a bit less sociable but also was much less argumentative as a teen. He also did well as school minus the social aspects and is applying to PhDs in astrophysics. I thought he was most likely to be autistic as a kid ngl, but it could be both or neither too.

Ah.

i have dairy intolerance abd to be honest it does make you quite picky at restaurants when you know if there is dairy in the dish you’ll be on the loo all night.

I think that’s pretty reasonable in the circumstances.

it’s hard to manage socially and if she’s got family “encouraging her” to eat stuff that she knows will make her ill then I can see why she’s struggling,

a friend of my DD’s was coeliac and basically didn’t eat out. It was very difficult.

edited for spelling

So is she waiting for A level results and hoping to go to uni in September?
Do not underestimate the stress and strain that puts on youngsters - it's really the first time for most that they aren't sure what is happening next. That can be very stressful for some, especially those that like routine and like to have plans in place.
Obviously, your neice seems to have other issues for a while, but this uncertainty is likely to be making things worse.

Her family is excellent at catering for her, to be fair. They bring a little flask of dairy free milk if they plan on going to a cafe abroad where there might not be fairy free milk, or a mini dessert in a pot when we go to restaurants so she can eat something other than fruit, and they always check menus beforehand. I think it’s mainly the sadness of feeling like she can’t eat something when others can, on top of being anxious about something being too spicy or just not nice. It all culminates in getting fed up and grouchy and sad in restaurants, which I can understand and deeply sympathise with, but it is sometimes really overblown to the point of making a scene/storming out. That’s the main issue. The rest is manageable.

Yeah, but she’s been like this all through secondary school — year seven to GCSE mocks to actual GCSE’s to A Levels. I’m not sure where the reasonable stress ends and the problems begin anymore, honestly.